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Asus Zenbook 17 Fold OLED

587 points9 daysasus.com
Sholmesy9 days ago

Review from Dave2D 4 months ago, addresses the crease & hinge on a pre-production unit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFGhvYLbBRE

I think it seems like a cool idea, 17" at 4:3 ratio is alot of screen real estate, at a 12.5" 16:9 footprint.

Lot of negativity in this comment section, personally not something I'm that interested in, but I am interested in people experimenting with the form factor.

wakeupcall8 days ago

I think the design is brilliant.

Nice 4:3 ratio. This essentially doubles as a full screen you can put anywhere with a keyboard always at hand. That's how I use my laptop 99.9% of the time.

The microsoft book is already better than a regular clamshell in my eyes for versatility, but If you ignore the price for a moment (which brings the book to ridicolous costs), IMHO this design beats a clamshell design in versatility a 1000 times over, and the detachable screen design as well.

csdvrx8 days ago

I have a X1 Fold Tablet, and it's the best device I've ever owned

I like it so much that I spent time to make it work great under Windows 11: check https://csdvrx.github.io/

solarkraft8 days ago

... you need to manually fix it for Windows? Does it ship with Linux or something?

Edit: Great read - and your your enthusiasm for the device is getting me interested in it, but what an incredible software shit show. Imagine spending millions on hardware R&D only to release a product that's unusable due to terrible software. Why do manufacturers keep doing this?

+2
csdvrx8 days ago
ge968 days ago

Do you have any thoughts with the ASUS vs. what you have?

Dang that's an info heavy page that you wrote haha.

+1
csdvrx8 days ago
vijucat8 days ago

iosevka is a great font. Thanks for the recommendation!

dm3198 days ago

Might be nice to use at 17" with a 60% mechanical keyboard.

layer88 days ago

Just for comparison, this 17.3" 4:3 is the same height as 21.1" 16:9, and it has 185 DPI. If it was a bit larger and slightly higher DPI, I’d consider it as a main monitor for a desktop build. I’m still waiting for an OLED monitor in the 24-27" range with 200+ DPI.

sneak9 days ago

It’s only 2560 by 1920.

entropicdrifter9 days ago

Raw resolution matters a lot less than PPI and contrast/color quality, IMO

solarkraft8 days ago

On a phone yes, on a "desktop" OS losing resolution often also means being able to display less stuff.

+2
sudosysgen8 days ago
sovnade9 days ago

is that not enough for a 17"?

I don't have that many on my 27" desktop monitors and it's totally fine.

elxr9 days ago

That's completely fine.

Sholmesy8 days ago

Sorry, I should have clarified what I meant.

I meant that 4:3 17" is substantially more than a 16:9 17" monitor.

4:3 vs 16:9 for the same diagonal (17") results in 12% more area. a 16" MBP is already large, and is only 16:10, so 17" 4:3 is comparable to like 18/19" of work space in 16:9/10 world.

me551ah8 days ago

Scaling settings matter a lot more than just resolution

byteflip9 days ago

I’m unlikely to buy a foldable laptop, but a foldable monitor while traveling sounds kinda nice. I’m working from a hotel right now, so I can easily imagine it. Folding flat would offer protection from scratches in a bag/backpack and take less space. Would be hard pressed to fit a 17” portable monitor in my bag, but if it folds in half that’s more tenable!

darkteflon9 days ago

Slightly incidental, but after years of working out of hotel rooms, I’ve found that a 15.6” 4K portable display placed on a small tripod (Arca-Swiss mount) sitting directly above the main display of my 14” Macbook has been the perfect travel setup. It’s a dual-display setup, portable (similar area to the computer itself), similar desktop area and font resolution to the native panel, and prevents you from craning your neck.

alexitosrv9 days ago

I agree. This has been my setup as of lately https://imgur.com/a/1CjpS8G

. Portable 4k screen (the glare in the photo is not really visible in front).

. Custom mount for the laptop and a

. Wireless thinkpad keyboard with a trackpoint (which I love).

The cabling management has improved now, but this setup gives plenty of screen real estate, both displays are touch, and in comparison with a tablet where the applications context is lost the majority of time, here I can be more productive and is a joy to work with it.

mncharity8 days ago

> Custom mount for the laptop [...]

I've done a similar setup, but for a minimalist mount, used two 12in rulers, and gaff tape to make a hinge, a strap connecting the other ends, and a stop on one of them. So a heavy thinkpad sits on the desk ruler, leaning back against the other and the strap, with the bottom keyboard edge sitting between strap and stop. It's fragile, and I fear someday there will be a bump, crash, and sadness, but it's light, compact, and easily recreated.

AdrianEGraphene7 days ago

I see you still have working feet for the trackpoint keyboard... I've broken the foot on 3 of those.... any secrets you've got to preventing that?

roflyear8 days ago

what do you do for work?

alexitosrv8 days ago

I work as an infra architect at an MSP, so mostly Teams calls and Visio (sometimes even MS Whiteboard). and heavy web browsing.

tokamak-teapot9 days ago

Mind sharing which one you have please? I’d like to drop one in my laptop bag sometimes.

darkteflon9 days ago

Sure, I have an Innocn PU15-PRE. Just to reiterate that a 15.6” 4K is definitely the way to go. I also tried 14” 4K and 1440p panels but - on account of the way scaling and font rendering works in MacOS - they’re a big step down. Even moreso if you’re doing anything graphically intensive - you’ll want to use non-native scaling on a 14” 4K which is expensive for the GPU. The 15.6” panel doesn’t have this problem because the “effective 1080p resolution” divides cleanly into the native 4K panel resolution.

I spent ages working through this.

+2
vosper8 days ago
+1
tmikaeld9 days ago
+1
nailer9 days ago
+3
localhost9 days ago
+1
liminal9 days ago
sgerenser9 days ago

I'm using a very similar setup for when I want to work away from my 27" 4K display but still need a second screen to be productive (e.g. doing almost anything coding-related). Like the previous poster, I set it up with the external screen directly above my laptop screen which for me is much more comfortable than trying to put it beside the laptop, and ends up at a perfect eye level.

Bought this LG Gram 16" Portable display (2560x1440): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TS43YMT

This portable tripod: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08LGGXH1J

And this "tablet" mount that gets large enough to fit the 16" display: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08Z7Z7QZ3

Tripod/tablet mount also double as an iPad stand for video calling, etc.

Everything fits easily in my fairly compact backpack along with cables, dongles, mouse, etc.

+1
Ryanwest68 days ago
darkteflon8 days ago

It’s great, isn’t it? Can’t imagine working any other way now when I’m away from my desk.

I recently added keyboard shortcuts (using BetterTouchTool) on my left hand for moving the mouse cursor up and down between the centre of each display, as vertical mouse movements seem to be more tiresome than horizontal on account of the lie of your arm (less of an issue with the built-in trackpad).

+1
o_____________o8 days ago
charlie08 days ago

This is exactly what I am looking for.

liketochill8 days ago

Thanks for sharing

Lio9 days ago

I'm not the person you're asking but as Asus already make a range of portable monitors you could try one them:

https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ZenScreen/

WaitWaitWha8 days ago

I have two Asus ZenScreen Go MB16AHP. Comes with built in battery and a bunch of other great features.

For me, both of them stopped charging and refused to work right after warranty ran out. Now they are sitting on my shelf waiting to be cannibalized.

I very much enjoyed these screens. They were response, relatively light, fit into the bag, and with their own battery, I could chug along for hours without issue. Oh the joys of getting ready for meetings in airport lounges!

So, Asus portable monitors for me were great design, not so good implementation.

Bayart9 days ago

Uperfect makes 4K ones. AFAIK Asus only goes to 1080p.

rattray9 days ago

How do you attach an arca-swiss mount to a monitor?

darkteflon9 days ago
rattray9 days ago

Ah thank you! Clever.

A US-friendly link to a similar product is https://amzn.com/dp/B09H6QV53R (I searched "arca-swiss tablet mount 300mm" to find it; there are others that only go to 230mm width for folks interested in this with smaller portable monitors).

Personally I am currently experimenting with a Lenovo ThinkVision M14[0] perched (a little precariously) atop a Roost V3 Laptop Stand[1], which is a lower-quality but lighter, more minimal setup than what you describe.

When I'm on Zoom call, which is often, I can move the laptop onto the stand for a better camera angle and put the external monitor beneath.

I'm not doing graphics work and I find the 60Hz, 1920x1080, usbc-on-both-sides monitor sufficient for my purposes (much, much better than an old asus one which was 30Hz or less, and laggy).

[0] https://amzn.com/dp/B07YX5NKK2 [1] https://amzn.com/dp/B01C9KG8IG

twobitshifter8 days ago

apple sidecar gives you this if you buy the ipad.

alistairSH9 days ago

Not nearly 17", but I've found my iPad Pro makes a reasonable second monitor when traveling. It isn't really large enough to want to do work on it - I keep those windows on the main laptop monitor - but it works as a place to drop email/Slack/misc other things.

Terretta9 days ago

I advocate this as well. It’s superior in almost all ways to the portable screens of which I’ve tried many, and you also have an iPad, ideally with cellular chip. :-) On many short trips you can leave the actual laptop at home.

Jcowell8 days ago

The caveat is that to can’t be used without an Apple ID , making it unusable for work devices. (Amazing for personal devices though)

byteflip6 days ago

Yea that’s been a problem for me when I don’t use my personal Apple account on my work laptop.

CivBase9 days ago

Even with smaller portable monitors, I'd feel a lot more comfortable having one in my backpack if the screen wasn't exposed.

Rebelgecko9 days ago

FWIW, when I used the Asus portable monitors they came with a folio case that covered the screen when it was in a big and was used to stand the display up at different angles

bpye9 days ago

Agreed, that’s what makes this kind of interesting personally. I tend to prefer smaller devices for travel, being able to get both that and more screen real estate would be pretty cool.

nomel8 days ago

I think XR will end up being a viable, portable, alternative before folding screens become widely available.

jacquesm9 days ago

The responses to this are more interesting than the device itself. It's innovative, it's done by a brand that has a reasonable reputation for reliability and for standing behind their products and it may well fit a niche.

Innovation is always going to be risky, and Asus stands to lose some of their credibility if the device does not hold up over time. So I'll be more than happy to let them do their thing.

As for sustainability: all electronics that contain rechargeable batteries are in principle not sustainable and we all have one or more of those devices. Let the person who has never used a portable battery powered device cast the phirst phone.

geraldwhen9 days ago

God help your soul if you need to deal with an ASUS hardware RMA. They are easily the worst PC hardware manufacturer of all, and they sell clearly damaged and broken parts as "refurb."

They are terrible.

bedast9 days ago

Late last year going into early this year I had to deal with ASUS RMA with my ROG Flow X13 and the dock. The dock started failing. They wanted both the laptop and the dock sent in, so I sent both in. It took a while, but they got it taken care of.

The only problem I ran into is apparently FedEx treated the return as a soccer ball. The sturdy packaging was very damaged, and I'm surprised the damage to the laptop and dock weren't worse than a cracked frame, bent hinge, and cracked dock frame.

ASUS handled redoing the RMA without charging me anything. My assumption is they used the FedEx insurance.

They always re-image the device. When I got it back the second time, they forgot to remove their repair image and I had to re-image it myself. No biggie, I'm fine with that.

Perhaps what helped me is I've worked with technology for a couple of decades, including doing technical support and front line support for several years at the start of my career. I used my troubleshooting skills before even contacting ASUS and gave them all of my findings. The person I was talking to didn't bother with trying any further troubleshooting and just requested the RMA.

So, while I get that talking to any system builder's tech support and RMA can be a pain, I had a positive experience with ASUS RMA.

I have a friend with a recent Alienware laptop that had issues on day 1. Dell technician did a house call, basically destroyed his laptop, and left. Another friend has sworn off Dell because after several RMAs of his laptop, the warranty eventually expired and it still failed again. I don't know many people who have had to go through RMAs of other companies. But I get the impression that, outside of business support, all of them are garbage. However, ASUS did me right.

geraldwhen8 days ago

I bought about 16 refurbished asus gpus last year and 9 were DOA. Some had extreme damage but no packaging damage, making me think they were sent damaged.

Requiring a laptop for a dock issue is insane. That is not good service.

bedast6 days ago

It has a proprietary connector so they likely wanted to verify the fault wasn't in that connector.

djmips9 days ago

Interesting how you can take a horror story and come out feeling good. Lowered expectations...

bedast8 days ago

Failures happen. I've had to deal with Asus RMA only once in over a decade (I still have a monitor from 2009 that works and is in use). The only "horror" that happened was caused by FedEx, not Asus. I'm definitely upset that I had to send it back to Asus for a second time, but I don't blame Asus for FedEx damaging my device in transit.

I've had more "horror" from Corsair products. And not just one product line from them.

ebcase7 days ago

@bedast if you don't mind my asking, how do you like the Flow X13? It looks like an interesting machine -- thin, light (so it's very portable), but with the option of an external GPU and display.

+1
bedast6 days ago
Algent9 days ago

Also had terrible experience with that last year, brand new X570 constantly crashing after a year, found a capacitor leaking they kept the card for two week and sent it back without any change and with the shipping sticker directly on the box.

Had to throw the card away (out of spite, I had my own machine constantly crash for months before finding the cause) and buy a new one and X570 is not cheap at all. I'll do everything I can to never buy an Asus again for a long time, this include work where I can weight on this.

Since then two friends with a Asus MB (one same as me the other an intel one from 3y ago) went dead too due massive amount of capacitors leak, made me think they have a big problem that isn't talked about very much.

jjoonathan9 days ago

My $800 Asus monitor developed a faulty power supply, so I RMA'd it in original packaging. They refused the repair on the basis that the screen was cracked and sent me back a cracked screen. Unfortunately, my proof pictures weren't illuminated and in focus on the corner where Asus RMA cracked it, so I couldn't prove anything and was SOL. Ah well.

+1
cptskippy9 days ago
sleepymoose9 days ago

I hear more RMA horror stories about ASUS motherboards than any of their other products. That could just be due to a higher amount of MB failures though.

ngcc_hk9 days ago

I am too old. In 1980s if you buy motherboard you have to buy asus. Ever if it is built, asus.

Not sure these days as more a mac person … except my pc is running i9 still asus. Never have motherboard issues. Just sample of one but so far so good.

fuckmeyes9 days ago

They are shit in RMA but as is every other company, most service centres are outsourced. I remember I just need a droid to remove the cmos battery from my zenbook to fix some weird power on race condition that prevented the whole thing from switching on - I didn’t have the silly screwdrivers - yet they wanted to rma it for two weeks - had to literally scream down the shop unrefined - losing face - until they relented albeit with sir it won’t work but calm down you idiot we’ll try, of course it worked and I was back in a taxi 20mins later with working zenbook and my data. Still better than Acer but still shit. This was bangkok

eldaisfish9 days ago

Not every other company. Apple - to name one - are often simply excellent at this because they understand the power of customer satisfaction. There are numerous stories of apple replacing failed hardware with equivalent, newer models - phones and laptops alike.

There are plenty of legitimate criticisms one can make of Apple but customer satisfaction under warranty is not one of them.

sokoloff9 days ago

Agree. I had a nearly-new MacBook Air that had some weird power-on behavior. Took it to an Apple store; they ran diagnostics, found something amiss and I walked out with a brand new replacement in under an hour. (No "we have to escalate to corporate", just "You have a good TimeMachine backup? OK, here ya go...")

In summary, I got sold a defective product from a company and left with a much higher overall impression of the company.

+1
seanw4449 days ago
+1
aqwsde9 days ago
drewzero19 days ago

I replaced a broken display on a friend's ASUS laptop several years ago (which she had bought a few years before that at my recommendation) and found that one of the display hinge screws went right through the wifi antenna cable. "Oh yeah," she said when I pointed it out. "The wifi reception's never been very good." I put in a replacement antenna and cable from a parts laptop I had around and it worked much better.

That was the moment I realized that most consumer hardware is crap (even well-respected brands), and it can be difficult and expensive to try to find something that's not. I no longer recommend any specific brands to people.

andrewmunsell9 days ago

Unfortunately, I have to agree.

I went from having ASUS graphics cards and motherboards, to swearing off from buying ASUS products ever again. For me, they refused to repair or replace a brand new motherboard with a defective PCI-e slot because of some tiny cosmetic scratch somewhere else on the motherboard, claiming the "damage" voided the warranty. Magnuson-Moss anyone?

ASUS has even been warned by the FTC for violating the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, so really I should not be surprised: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/foia_requests/War...

citizenpaul9 days ago

IDK if ASUS has been doing it longer than others. However I find that this is common practice now days for most companies. I exchanged some sony headphones the other week and the ones I got back literally had dirt smeared in them, like some construction worker or mechanic had them and returned them.

I had some issues with a corsair power supply a couple years ago I had to do 5 returns before they finally sent me one in a box that was not already opened.

Apple does this as matter of practice. You go in they will give you an "new" phone that is in some weird box that is not the retail box. Those are returned phones.

elxr9 days ago

> I had to do 5 returns before they finally sent me one in a box that was not already opened.

Before this year, I've never had a defective electronic device (laptop, phone, monitor, camera, etc.) or encountered any issue that made me return a device. But a few months back, I had a similarly terrible experience with returns.

I bought a new lenovo yoga, it came with a defective spacebar. Got a replacement, it came with another defective spacebar! And this was a new laptop, still sealed. Decided to just replace the keyboard & upper case under warranty (which was the recommended procedure), and now the spacebar issue is finally fixed. But now I notice the new upper case had a raised crease above the "Esc" key. This time, I'm not bothering with another return or replacement, at least the crease isn't affecting any functionality.

I've never experienced QC this poor before on a brand new, >$1000 electronic device. The whole thing turned me off from lenovo laptops.

+1
geraldwhen8 days ago
opan8 days ago

ThinkPads are the only good thing Lenovo ever put out, and they just bought them off IBM. I would never recommend the brand (or almost any brand) as a whole.

ChrisMarshallNY9 days ago

> Apple does this as matter of practice. You go in they will give you an "new" phone that is in some weird box that is not the retail box. Those are returned phones.

That sounds like a replacement refurb. They won't tell you that it's "new." Apple does that, when they can't fix the problem. I've gotten a couple of those, over the years, and never had a problem.

I get AppleCare, by habit. I seldom need it, but when I do, I'm sure glad I did.

I remember, once, I had a laptop that developed a fatigued hinge, as well as issues with the USB-C/TB ports. Apple basically replaced the entire unit. Another time, they gave me a refurb replacement that worked great.

I used to travel a lot, and my laptops saw a lot of action.

+1
citizenpaul6 days ago
simonh9 days ago

The Apple ones are refurbs. They replace the screen and battery.

WillAdams9 days ago

And the underlying engineering is unreliable for some models --- which is a shame --- I'm still sad that my Asus Note 8 w/ Wacom stylus quit working (just after I'd kitted it out w/ every accessory I needed), and I regret not picking up their b/w LCD unit.

varispeed9 days ago

Watch NorthridgeFix channel. Asus laptops are very much regulars -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjGvLOW6Qec

londons_explore9 days ago

I really wish they'd design the case of the product to be fully removable easily (ie. 30 seconds with the right tool). Then a 'refurb' can consist of switching your case onto new innards.

Since this form of 'refurb' would be so cheap to operate, all warranty claims could be handled this way no questions asked.

Send the old innards back to the factory to run the full factory test suite, and if they pass then great, and if they fail have them stripped for parts.

mox19 days ago

You are describing the framework laptop. Maybe not 30 seconds, but all you need is a screwdriver

ImPostingOnHN8 days ago

Dell warranties have covered this (and more) for me

pkage9 days ago

This is pretty much the Apple model.

rozap9 days ago

That wasn't my experience. In college a roommate spilled a pint of beer on my ZenBook. They replaced the keyboard for me even though I was clear that it was an accident and not a product failure.

I've bought zenbooks ever since then, and they've been great.

caycep9 days ago

If not Asus, then who?

Asrock - have not had a motherboard go bad...but looking at their website, I'd be wary of trying to get an RMA

Gigabyte/MSI all have their own share of complaints....

eVGA? they have stateside support but sometimes the specs aren't as good as Asrock's.

PNY?

kitsunesoba9 days ago

Have heard almost exclusively good things about EVGA's RMA process. Haven't needed that service myself but from what I've seen/heard they'll replace defective hardware without fighting you about it and the replacement is shipped quickly.

+1
geraldwhen8 days ago
iasay9 days ago

LOL I read the first comment about Asus and quality and expected to read this. Can confirm. Absolutely the worst company on the planet.

nekoashide9 days ago

I take exception to you casting them as having a reasonable reputation for reliability. In my experience it's a gamble for reliability, if you lose expect poor support, long repair times, and if it's out of warranty the repairs are always more than the cost of the device.

bedast9 days ago

You gamble when buying any product. No one has a 100% success rate. In my personal experience over a decade of using Asus products, I've not seen a 100% success rate, but my only one failure was recently and they took care of me.

Dell might send a technician to you, but that doesn't mean the quality is any better. Friend of mine fairly recently had his Alienware laptop "repaired" which ended with Dell completely replacing it because the technician effectively destroyed his new laptop. Ordered, received it months later, was defective out of the box, technician destroyed it, had to wait even more months for a replacement, tried to send him an inferior replacement in the process.

None of them are without faults. But I've had a lot of success with Asus.

nrki9 days ago

My Asus Android tablet, abandoned without a single Android OS update, begs to differ.

mentos9 days ago

Currently I have 2 PCs under my desk and 2 monitors that I use for work. I've fantasized about trying to travel and work but lugging a laptop and a portable monitor around seem too cumbersome. I'd love to experiment with two of these that could fold inside of each other (like 2 hands clasping) and set them up on a desk in an airbnb and remote desktop into my 2 home PCs from each.

But most likely the idea of trying to travel/vacation and work at the same time is a bad one. Should probably just take advantage of economies of scale and do all my working at once and then all my traveling at once.

wink9 days ago

There are several failure modes for innovation.

New ARM-based chipset on a laptop? There are benchmarks and apparently we trust that they don't just melt after 1000h of use. (and sometime you can replace a laptop cpu)

Smartwatch? Cool new thing, doesn't really cost an arm and a leg, might try that - maybe the battery can be replaced.

A screen - the one thing that you had to carry very careful (crt), be careful not to scratch while wiping off dust, or not letting your waterbottle press against too heavily in your bag... and now you're folding it?

This is one of the few times you can call me a pure Luddite, I am terrified of this and the idea that it could break like 2 months after warranty ends. Or inside warranty and they just tell me to gtfo because I handled it wrong. Yes, maybe I am overly careful here, but my personal laptops are from 2016 and 2013 and both got some amount of abuse... I like long-lasting hardware...

jacquesm9 days ago

Well, wait and see. Early adopters get to claim the cool factor and the rest of us can pick it up if and when it survives. But it's an interesting development and I do hope that it works out for them once they start fielding them in larger numbers, a recall of these devices in quantity would not come cheap.

wink9 days ago

Yeah, I mean waiting and seeing is the best idea if you don't want to spend/waste money.

Maybe we've assumed a different "majority of comments" and I saw more "I'm not buying this" and you meant the "this is a terrible idea" ones :P

vxNsr9 days ago

> it's done by a brand that has a reasonable reputation for reliability and for standing behind their products

This is simply not true. Asus like acer is a brand I tell people to avoid when shopping for a new laptop. They have a horrible reputation on QA and as others have mentioned their support is dead last in actually getting things done.

bedast9 days ago

Can you show a metric that shows their support is dead last? Or are you going off of emotional experiences and anecdotes of others?

I've owned multiple Zenbooks over the years and they've been fine. I've helped friends choose Zenbooks as well and they were happy with them. The one time I went with a non-Zenbook for an upgrade (Lenovo Yoga) I regretted it.

Been using Asus products for over a decade. Only ever had 1 failure and they handled it fine. I have a 24" LCD monitor from 2009 that's been relegated to being a small dumb TV with a smart box on it to provide TV functions, so longevity seems fine.

I'd place Corsair far below Asus, to be honest.

Pxtl9 days ago

I used to be a fan of Asus devices but their quality has gone down over time, and it wasn't that high to begin with. At this point the only product of theirs I stand behind is their routers, and that's only because the quality standard of the router industry is even worse.

opan8 days ago

Funny you mention their routers, I specifically avoid ASUS routers as they usually use Broadcom chips, which means horrible software support and no chance of OpenWRT working well. I look up individual models and can't recommend any whole brand, but the Netgear R6220 is pretty good, and I think there are a couple other Netgear routers with good support. TP-Link has some as well, like the Archer C7.

Pxtl8 days ago

I had one of the early Archer C7 versions and it soured me for the whole brand. I've heard the newer ones are better but bad wifi is so exhausting they don't get a second chance.

baybal29 days ago
croes9 days ago

Is it really an innovation? If I look at foldable S smartphones then this is like a bigger version with an external keyboard.

jacquesm9 days ago

Is there a similar device on the market right now?

A 'bigger version' by two orders of magnitude surface wise certainly seems innovative to me, I'm not aware of another company risking their reputation on something like this at present but I'll be happy to be corrected.

There was an intel proof-of-concept but I'm not aware of anything that was actually available to the public.

Keep in mind that what looks trivial to you ('just a bigger version') may require an enormous amount of engineering to make it reliable enough for mass consumption.

sebzim45009 days ago

> 'bigger version' by two orders of magnitude surface wise certainly seems innovative to me

Is it even one order of magnitude?

shawabawa39 days ago

It's actually 16 orders of magnitude bigger than a 5" smart phone... if you use a base of 1.08

There's no defined base for order of magnitude so technically you can use anything!

thereddaikon9 days ago

Lenovo X1 fold. It was announced last year.

+1
tromp9 days ago
april_229 days ago

Exactly. It's basically the same device executed a bit better..

croes9 days ago

The problem of foldable screens is the fold not surface are. So the fold is longer now.

These isn't a real innovation to me.

Is a smartphone with double the screen size innovative?

anthonypasq9 days ago

its 100 times bigger?

malfist9 days ago

Just so GP knows how much bigger "2 orders of magnitude" from the Galaxy Fold would be, it's >16 square meters of screen space. That would mean a screen north of 160" on it's diagonal. Somehow, I don't think 17" cuts it.

croes9 days ago

That would be an innovation, have never seen a screen that big.

luismedel9 days ago

Why not? Was the iPad an innovation or a bigger iPhone/iPod touch?

croes9 days ago

I don't count an iPad as an innovation. It is just a bigger iPhone.

lwhi9 days ago

Was a tablet innovative?

Just a bigger smartphone ..?

Lio9 days ago

I'd be really excited if they offer this as part of their ZenScreen portable monitor range.

They seem to be currently mostly 1080p but a folding 17" or larger HiDPI screen for an existing laptop would be brilliant.

I generally like smaller laptops like the MacBook Air or XPS 13. I could see me using a tri-fold ZenScreen in hotel room and then just the laptop on a plane/train tray table.

https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ZenScreen/

Terretta9 days ago

> smaller laptops like the Macbook Air

iPad Pro 12.9” as external second hidpi/retina monitor for Macbook is remarkable in three modes

- USB-C to USB-C for all day powered zero latency extended desktop

- WiFi for cable free extended desktop

- keyboard mouse sharing (by pushing your Macbook cursor against the side of your laptop screen by the iPad, till it “pops” onto the iPad) for seamlessly running Macbook apps and iPad apps side by side using your main keyboard/mouse, able to not just cut and paste but drag and drop (!!!) between the two devices and OSes.

And then just the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard (and its trackpad) on the plane/train tray table (hinge design sets the screen in from the hinge, allowing use in shallower depths like the tray tables).

user_78327 days ago

How do you do the usb c to usb c zero latency setup?

breakfastduck8 days ago

Also considerably more expensive than a monitor.

sudosysgen8 days ago

And considerably worse in every way, especially compared to modern OLEDs and high refresh rate LCDs.

+1
Terretta8 days ago
+1
happyopossum8 days ago
ddalex9 days ago

I've been pitching for a while hinged screens, like double laptop screen that unfolds a second same-size screen above the first. The fold seems like a nice touch, if this would come as a separate portable monitor I'd buy it in a pinch.

jfoster9 days ago

Looks fancy. Is this what the market wants?

I don't particularly like Apple, but I use a Macbook Pro. I've been keeping an eye out for a non-Apple alternative to a Macbook, but nothing seems to come close in terms of hardware. I don't mean technical specs. I mean a beautiful screen, reasonable dimensions & weight, a really good touchpad, great battery life, etc.

A big foldable screen looks cool, but doesn't feel at all pragmatic. Could someone please compete with Apple?

iasay9 days ago

The reason that there is no non-Apple alternatives to the MacBook Pro is because everyone is too focused on blue sky innovation rather than actually doing the best job of stuff that already exists.

Quality is the feature that apple sell. I don't think anyone else gets near them.

asdajksah21239 days ago

Apple's built up an incredible lead right now (in quality and specs), but as the son of a of a macbook from a few years ago, the idea that Apple sells "quality" is mistaken, with the most obvious example being the butterfly keyboard, which would make your device unusable if you happened to say the wrong combination of words at the wrong time.

But generally Apple has a history of laptops that have design defects, which Apple does not acknowledge either for years after they stop selling the laptop, and/or are forced to by a lawsuit (which will usually complete years after they stop selling the laptop), at which point most people won't even be aware that Apple has instituted a replacement program and/or discarded their brick for parts on eBay.

achow9 days ago

100%. I take this opportunity to make people NOT forget 'Staingate' [1]. My colleague had horrible time getting his daughter's Macbook fixed by Apple, as officially they did not acknowledge that the problem exists for months (maybe close to year+).

[1] https://www.makeuseof.com/macbook-staingate-fixes/

jlokier8 days ago

Ouch. Looking at that link, today I discover my late 2013 MBP had that fault and is in the list of machines that was eligible for repair, but of course the time limit has passed.

I have a late 2013 MBP whose screen developed visible loss of coating in 2014, and cleaning the screen even made an annoying always-on bright pixel due to a tiny chip in the surface. I was sad at that at the time and looked into getting a new display, even paying for it, but there was no way to do it. You couldn't even go to an Apple store and pay for this repair.

That said, this 2013 MBP has been a lovely and excellent machine in almost every respect, and it's still my daily driver (as a software dev), which is great value and longevity for a laptop. I was skeptical of Apple before I got one, but now it's almost a no-brainer to get another when the time is right.

iasay9 days ago

Please note that my point is that they sell better quality laptops than the competitors, not the best quality they could be.

Although I have precisely zero complaints with my 14" MBP.

joshspankit9 days ago

Actual defects aside, a lot of people buy Apple for the quality.

Whether those people are right or not, Apple is extremely good at positioning itself as the quality option.

pookha9 days ago

I took my quality Macbook to a dogbark. My quality macbooks' fancy screen broke because of a thin layer of dust at said dogpark. Opening up my quality macbook was like difussing a bomb. I learned from that experience and won't ever buy another Macbook again for as long as I live. the Macbook replacement has made several trips to a dogpark. I did have a good experience at the mac store though. Dude was honest about the situation and could relate to my pain and rage.

Terretta9 days ago

Interesting! In our experience, travel and residence in central African dust the likes of which doesn’t exist in EU or NA didn’t do anything to Macbook Air or Macbook Pro. What kind of dust was the dog park? How did it affect the screen in particular?

This tan cloud is dust rolling in:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nPCnELCVMsvn5W0lOHlPxC2Ycq...

Another dust squall:

https://www-cdn.eumetsat.int/files/2020-04/img_il_10_07_05_b...

KptMarchewa9 days ago

Which is funny because while current 14' and 16' MBPs are very ahead of competition, previous generation was dogshit in terms of quality, and had a lot of this "blue sky innovation" that decreased usability - like the touch bar.

sovnade9 days ago

The M1 and M2 (and the benefits from them, like ridiculous battery life, low heat (enough so that you can run it totally fanless unless you're outside in the direct sun or something), and more importantly desktop-comparable speed for even heavy tasks like photo/video editing are really, really good. Honestly unless you're required to run windows, it makes a macbook kind of a no brainer right now, especially if you have other ios devices.

+1
eertami9 days ago
+2
kllrnohj8 days ago
opan8 days ago

#' is feet and #" is inches, fyi.

rsynnott9 days ago

> because everyone is too focused on blue sky innovation rather than actually doing the best job of stuff that already exists.

Including, for a while, Apple. How quickly people have forgotten the touchbar!

iasay9 days ago

We haven’t forgotten or forgiven. We will eternally sleep with one eye open.

jillesvangurp8 days ago

I don't know what other manufacturers are focusing on, but it sure looks unimpressive. I just received my shiny new macbook pro 14 inch. I spent the last few months using a Linux laptop. Overall a good experience and it works. But I'm glad to be back on a mac.

Quality and performance are where Apple just shines. Most PC manufacturer's seem to mainly compete on how bad of a screen & touchpad combination they can find. There are some truly awful things on the market of manufacturers that just stopped even trying a long time ago. Touchpads are universally awful in the laptop market, with the exception of Apple. I found this out by connecting my magic touchpad 2 to my Linux laptop. Works great! As good as with a mac. The software support in Linux is fine. Precise, responsive, smooth, just like it should be. It's the hardware that is the problem. Even brands that are supposedly premium keep opting for these cheep plastic touchpads with poor sensitivity, awkward button mechanics, etc. Apple nailed this decades ago. On this front they have no competition.

That, the screen, and the stellar performance of the M1 is making the difference right now. I connected an external drive with x-plane on it a few days ago to see how far I could push it. Turns out, I can max out all the sliders and it runs at about 30-40fps at the normal screen resolution. That's with lots of add ons, some of which are really demanding and using the rosetta emulator. Very impressive. For work, this thing runs circles around my Linux laptop. Build speeds are about 2-3x.

sovnade9 days ago

There's plenty of good laptops out there not made by apple. Dell XPS 13 is excellent, asus has several zenbook models that are on par, etc. They don't get much media coverage because the standards we expect from laptops are so high now that we take it for granted (0.75" thick or less, all day battery, insanely high pixel density (enough to require scaling), fast enough cpu/memory for any day to day task, great screen brightness, 512gb-2tb+ nvme ssds, generic charger ports (usb-c), etc. You can get all of that for under $1k from several makers now.

xeromal9 days ago

Shout out to the XPS line. I have one as my development machine and it's wonderful.

saiya-jin9 days ago

Selective quality. There were most-expensive-on-the-market-yet-worst-quality fraying cables that my 1$ usb cables from aliexpress could run circles around long after those were discarded (or not, my mother-in-law still carries one around, I guess to remind everyone how crappy engineering looks like). Bending phones (was it 6?). Also some nefarious moves like slowing down older phones.

Every manufacturer has these blops. Yet very few (more like none) have such fanatical crowd of followers who uncritically accept everything and keep peddling the same 'apple is quality, above others, better than google on privacy' and similar wishful thinking/lies. They just have better PR department is all I see, the rest is just another HW/SW company who charge premium.

Its nothing new, other businesses figured this long ago. You can have a normal decent handbag, or have louis vuitton / hermes one. It will cost you 10x (or 100x) more. Its often hand-made quality. Many women love them. Most guys are looking on this in same way we would look on... mentally underdeveloped. Yet the market exists and its booming. And nobody is arguing Hermes doesn't bring higher quality than regular brand.

Coming back to your claims, apple rarely truly innovates these days and technologically its behind most manufacturers (low res cameras producing pleasing but over-processed pics that have colors far from reality, battery charging on level of basic 2016 phones, screen is OK but definitely not top of the market, bluetooth implementation is beyond pathetic for such a manufacturer, literally everybody on the market has it better). They take over others ideas that work and improve them. Which is fine but not the stellar behavior I would expect from 3TN company having 1 centerpiece product.

KptMarchewa9 days ago

>There were most-expensive-on-the-market-yet-worst-quality fraying cables that my 1$ usb cables

Apple is incredibly inconsistent. The iphone cable quality was complete dogshit: https://i.imgur.com/t7Oajul.jpeg

On the other hand, the new macbook pro magsafe cable is probably the best quality cable I've ever owned.

+1
trebbble8 days ago
Ensorceled9 days ago
jacquesm9 days ago
madoublet9 days ago

I think most people (not devs/designers) view a laptop as something that costs around $750. That is why Windows still has a huge marketshare. Dell, Lenovo, Samsung, Microsoft all have laptops that have solid build quality, OLED screens, touchscreens, etc. at $1,500-2,200 price range but no one buys those. If you are in that price range, you are probably in one of those niche industries (design, development, graphics) and you are probably buying an Apple.

hackerfromthefu9 days ago

That view is so myopic - loads of people buy high end non-apple laptops. I would anecdotally guess many many more than apple overall. Just seems you're lacking in awareness of it. Probably a particular social bubble you are in, combined with myopia to the rest of the world.

nicolaslem9 days ago

> $1,500-2,200 price range but no one buys those.

Individuals may not but companies buy (or lease) truckloads of them.

varispeed9 days ago

I disagree. Buying Dell and Samsung laptop in that price range I'd say it is an overpriced rubbish if you compare to current Apple produce. There is really no comparison when it comes to build quality and performance.

eertami9 days ago

I have an XPS and I personally find it better than the M1 MBP in almost everything except power efficiency, so I have much difference experiences compared to your other review in this thread.

The XPS doesn't make much noise and I notice no difference in speed while developing. Some tasks are even faster, because native Docker instead of running via Docker for Mac. The battery doesn't last as long I guess, but it will still last for 8 hours, which is far longer than I need.

varispeed8 days ago

This is not my experience with XPS 15 (2019). It is substantially slower, it is loud and battery used to last less than an hour. Then constantly dying chargers, I had a box of Dell chargers that worked for a month and then laptop stopped recognising them. For the tasks I do (I use Docker heavily) M1 is more than twice as fast in low power mode and never heard fans going off or felt any slowdowns. On XPS if I opened a heavier webpage, it was possible for the entire laptop to slow down and not even refreshing the screen timely, so you witnessed a slideshow and usually only way out was to perform a hard reset. Also random power off or if it goes to sleep it won't wake up. I have to then leave it for an hour and then maybe it will power on (sometimes I have to try a couple of times). This is actually the same experience I had with earlier XPS 13. Google XPS won't power on - plenty of people have this problem.

april_229 days ago

Also I think MacOS is still much better than Windows in terms of design and usability

cowtools9 days ago

I think Linux is still much better than MacOS in terms of design and usability, but that doesn't really mean much when operating systems compete on compatibility with programs (which themselves compete on compatibility with operating systems). It is a vicious cycle.

If your job requires you to run AutoCAD or VSC++ or something, you're just going to use windows. The average user isn't going to figure out how to use KVM or Wine or something. If your job requires some linux/unix tool, is the average user going to fidget with it until it works in MacOS or just use Ubuntu or something? MacOS is the worst of both worlds: it is both closed-source AND a minority OS.

bee_rider9 days ago

I used a rolling release distro for a while on desktop and a NUC, it was really nice and convenient. But I switched over to Ubuntu for a laptop ("they'll sort out the touchscreen drivers and onscreen keyboard situation" I told myself), now and I kinda regret telling people to "just use Ubuntu or something" in the past.

It worked when I first installed it, until quite recently, when a new version hit. Upgrading every package at the same time is obviously destabilizing, something has changed in the plumbing and under certain circumstances some gtk programs require a 30 second timeout to occur before they start, and there's the whole snap firefox debacle. Longing for the stability of rolling release, oddly enough.

Anyway, I haven't used MacOS, but I've generally been surprised to find that my current system is hovering around near-Windows level usability, other than the familiar terminal which is nice. Probably time to try out tumbleweed...

mnahkies9 days ago

I've been very happy with my Dell XPS 15 - 5 years old and still going strong albeit with reduced battery performance. Great Linux support and a nice screen.

Will probably upgrade in the next year or two primarily because replacing the battery and increasing the ram is pricey enough that I may as well buy a new machine.

weberer9 days ago

The New XPS line doesn't support real sleep mode. It is a huge pain starting work after the weekend and most of your battery is already gone. I'd avoid them until they get this fixed.

https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-15-9510-fails-to-slee...

jlkuester79 days ago

+1 for the XPS line! I have one that is probably ~5 years old. Just replaced the battery on it with no hassle (got a reasonably priced OEM replacement from NewEgg). The build quality on these things is excellent, and the specs are not bad either!

jfoster9 days ago

Looks pretty good actually. Especially considering the Linux support. Might be my next one.

CRConrad3 days ago

> I don't particularly like Apple, but I use a Macbook Pro. I've been keeping an eye out for a non-Apple alternative to a Macbook, but nothing seems to come close in terms of hardware.

I used a MacBook Pro for work a few years ago, 2014-18, and really liked the hardware.

Never got the vaunted "It's So Intuitive!" UI hype, though. And from OS "upgrade" experience -- felt more like downgrades, with the ever more limited configurability -- during that time and from everything I've heard since about the constantly shrinking "walled garden" of their ecosystem, I've pretty much come to detest their software side.

Soo... Give Asahi Linux a couple years more to mature, and if in that time they release a fanless (M2, M3?) laptop with a larger (16-17", or, heck, why not even more?) screen, I might be really tempted.

therealunreal9 days ago

The Surface Book has a great screen, at 13.5" it's perfect and not too heavy, good touchpad and great battery life.

Now, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for other reasons and I haven't tried the latest gen, but it sure fits your requirements.

sudosysgen8 days ago

There are plenty of non-Apple alternatives to the MBP. Plenty of laptops with a 6800U or 6800H. None of them have better trackpads, but plenty have nice ones and significantly better keyboards. And some have OLED or 240Hz screens which I'd say are better than the ones in the MacBook Pro. Any laptop with that processor and a reasonable 65Wh+ battery is going to have great battery life.

Some even have great graphics cards, or touchscreens with pen support, or mechanical keyboards, etc... ASUS even makes a few laptops in this category (some of them are branded as gaming laptops but really do everything you want).

The issue with PC laptops isn't that there is no competition for the MBP. It's just that it's very confusing and that there are literally hundreds of options and only 5-6 models that will do what you want.

There are a lot of

trebbble8 days ago

> great battery life, etc.

The "great battery life" is part hardware, but largely software. See also: iOS devices with "worse" specs and smaller batteries that perform way better than "better" Android counterparts, while also having longer battery life. Some of it's hardware voodoo, but a lot of it's iOS and MacOS and various pieces of Apple software (notably Safari and Mobile Safari) being very respectful of system resources and protective of the battery.

It's a bit like how you used to be able to put BeOS on a Windows or Linux desktop and it'd feel like all the hardware was 4x higher clock / bigger memory size than it had been.

pelagicAustral9 days ago

Looks very niche to me as well. But I can already see it might well be the most ideal laptop for presentations, given you could preview slides on one half and keep keynotes on the ‘keyboard’ half.... I can see myself enjoying using something like this for such purpose.

nottorp9 days ago

> I mean a beautiful screen, reasonable dimensions & weight, a really good touchpad, great battery life, etc.

The competition on the other side is on specs. It's hard to stick hardware with bigger numbers in a thin case. Look at Intel's NUCs vs the Mac Mini... they come with a power brick larger than the computer to win in specs, while Apple has an elegant built in PSU.

And... a working touchpad that can actually replace a mouse for 95% of use cases? How are you going to market that?

You want the largest numbers, you have to go with the others. If you can stomach windows. You want a less annoying experience, Apple unfortunately has about zero competition there. Which is bad even for Apple users because then you get masterpieces like the butterfly keyboard...

newaccount20219 days ago
suction9 days ago

In East Asia, novelty or "cuteness" of a product, i.e. the look of things, is mostly what counts. That's how East Asian makers try to stay ahead of the competition, because actual innovation that goes beyond the surface (no pun intended) is hard and not actually encouraged in societies with a confucian view of the workplace.

jacquesm9 days ago

I think this is too shallow a dismissal of innovation in an area so large that it spans 35% of the globe, and there are quite literally numerous existence proofs that it isn't correct.

The idea that all innovation happens in the United States and Europe is fairly ridiculous, innovation happens on all levels of product development, both deep in the guts of products as well further up as well as sometimes entirely new classes of products.

nottorp9 days ago

I have anecdata. I worked for an European guy who was designing new (and at least in his mind) innovative hardware from scratch in the US. And getting it manufactured in China. The Chinese looked at him like he was insane because he was designing everything from scratch instead of cloning something.

suction9 days ago

East Asian societies which have not yet let go of Confucianist mindsets are not 35% of the globe.

MontyCarloHall9 days ago

>actual innovation … is not actually encouraged in societies with a confucian view of the workplace.

How does this follow? If the implication is that collectivist societies frown upon excelling relative to one’s peers (which is not true, BTW), then wouldn’t the exact same logic apply to novelty or cuteness?

No, this is the result of corporate bean counters thinking they should maximize short term profit with a splashy product, rather than maximize long term profit with high quality and reliability, which take more time for the market to recognize.

nemothekid9 days ago

>In East Asia, novelty or "cuteness" of a product, i.e. the look of things, is mostly what counts.

I find it hard to believe that this is an exclusively an east asian thing. Apple spent a decade chasing thinness over all else.

suction8 days ago

Guess why - because the East Asian customers want thinness and lightness over power. I know because in Japan, when people saw my Mac (a 2013 MBP), first they were like "oh a Mac, can I try it?", but as soon as they held it, they were extremely surprised by its weight (compared to some 11" Toshiba notebook they preferred). It's understandable because in Japanese and Chinese cities, city people rarely drive but lug around their computers in bags, up and down stairs, standing for 1-2 hours in the crowded subway, etc.

+1
user_named6 days ago
user_named9 days ago

Source?

suction9 days ago

Living many years in Japan and China and really understanding the culture?

+1
user_named6 days ago
mmanfrin8 days ago

Cool design, but absolutely never buying an Asus product again. Every single product I've bought from them (router, motherboard, monitor, etc) has broken, and their support system is an absolute nightmare.

franga20008 days ago

In what situation would you need the manufacturer's support? Asus doesn't sell direct to consumer, so issues while still under warranty are handled by the store you bought it from.

ImPostingOnHN8 days ago

the store is not an expert in the electronics inside the device, or the firmware that runs on it, so they're incapable of providing any meaningful support

franga20008 days ago

I guess my question is what kind of support do you need for a laptop (that any other manufacturer is going to provide)? Software issues are the OS vendor's problem, for hardware issues they'll just tell you to send it to the shop, parts compatibility doesn't exist since nothing is replaceable... I guess driver issues? But then they'll just tell you to either run Windows Update or install it from their downloads page.

ImPostingOnHN8 days ago

sure, it sounds like you understand why the support is bad for most of their devices (which aren't laptops), so here are things Dell support has helped me out with, with one of my laptops they made:

- issues with the OS (yep, Microsoft definitely isn't going to pick up the phone and provide support)

- processor speed issues

- processor virtualization issues

- overnighted me a processor replacement for me to replace under warranty

- overnighted me a technician to fix my poor processor installation, still under warranty

- overnighted me a replacement keyboard to install

as far as I know, Asus has neither negotiated nor paid retailers to provide the type of support manufacturers are supposed to provide, so they can't wash their hands of it

you seem to be pessimistic about things a support team of engineers can or should or will do, possibly based on experience with Asus support :), but tech support for a computer or a device exceeds "have you tried turning it off and back on" and "ok return it", or it's bad support

lizardactivist8 days ago

That seems very strange, in particular since you appear to suggest you bought so many of them. I mean, what are the odds?

I think you're simply using them wrong or handling them carelessly.

mmanfrin8 days ago

You know literally nothing about me except that I've had a bad experience with a brand, so you come to the conclusion that I'm "simply using them wrong"?

Unbelievable.

A $400 Asus router I bought had a broken 2.4ghz band, was that 'using [it] wrong'? I had a motherboard fry itself, do you think I was in there 'mishandling' the motherboard? An Asus monitor I bought would periodically shut off and not turn on again unless you physically unplugged and plugged it back in, a faulty power circuit that I found many others having issue with.

Your comment is rude and gaslighting.

timnetworks8 days ago

It truly is rare that someone may have so much bad luck, since QC is automated these days. Perhaps you may want to check your home's circuitry for noise or spikes, or install a power conditioner?

I'm not a lawyer doctor or electrician, full stop. Anecdotally, however, I've used ASUS for a couple of decades, and it's been above average in my experience.

p.s. $400 is like a lot of money for a router?

zamadatix8 days ago

I'd hazard to guess the router was something like https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Rapture-Gaming-Router-GT-AXE1100... not your typical 2x2 wifi AP + gigabit router combo. I say this because I once returned such a top end ASUS model 3x (twice to swap, 3rd to refund) as they were all just some form of DoA. I felt like I was going crazy to the point I took the 3rd one to work to unbox it thinking. Based on the number of 1 star DoA reviews at the time vs the reviews now they seem to have figured it out.

Overall their support is a bit lacking for the high price point stuff if you turn out to need it, the low end or normal stuff I have no complaints on.

lizardactivist8 days ago

I apologize if it sounded like I was judging your character, or if my comment was otherwise clumsy.

What I meant was it's most likely broken third-party power-supplies, using sockets without proper grounding, or problems with the electrical wiring.

You mention a fried motherboard -- this is not caused by the board itself, but from too much current being put through the board.

anyfoo8 days ago

> You mention a fried motherboard -- this is not caused by the board itself, but from too much current being put through the board.

Though one leading cause of too much current being put through the board, besides too much voltage at the inputs (in case of a power supply fault), is the motherboard drawing too much current. Which can well be caused by failing components shorting out, for example. Or a voltage regulator on the board producing too much voltage.

Saying a fried motherboard is generally not caused by the board itself is not true.

webdood908 days ago

You are awfully sensitive

WilTimSon8 days ago

> Every single product I've bought from them (router, motherboard, monitor, etc) has broken

Has broken in what time frame? Because if it breaks within the first year or so, I'd understand it, but tech breaking/malfunctioning after the standard warranty time expires is pretty common in my experience. I've only ever bought one laptop from Asus but it served me well enough for 4 years, until the battery went haywire and ballooned to thrice its size.

TekMol9 days ago

Fold or not, what I want for a laptop is:

A tablet with a matte screen.

That can run Linux.

So I can put it on a stand and a keyboard in front of it.

That would be the ultimate travel setup! Working in cafes without having to look down all the time.

Does something like this exist?

spaceman_20209 days ago

Just get a Thinkpad. They have all the features you want. They're not going to be as thing and light, but their keyboards are better than anything out there. The touchpad is iffy, but if you're using Linux (I use it too), your touchpad experience is going to be subpar anyway.

falcor849 days ago

My 2 cents: get a model with a touchpoint - once you get used to it, it's amazing how efficient it is to quickly switch between mouse and keyboard.

TekMol9 days ago

This is a misunderstaning. A Thinkpad does not let me take off the keyboard.

That's why I want a tablet and a keyboard.

So I can put the tablet on a stand and the keyboard in front of it.

saratogacx9 days ago

I have an X1 Yoga which is capable of all of these things. It is a laptop with a good keyboard setup that can hold up it's own screen w/out a kickstand. When I don't want the keyboard I just fold it up and the keyboard changes to lift and lock so the back of it is solid making it easier to put on a stand (or A frame it and use a couple of books in a pinch. They sell one with linux preinstalled too.

I got mine in 2016 and it's been rock solid.

humanistbot9 days ago

Lenovo Thinkpad X12 detachable

TekMol9 days ago

12 Inch is a bit small. 13 would be great.

Maybe the Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Tablet would work.

Does anybody know if the keyboard works while disconnected? So one can put the tablet on a stand and still use the keyboard?

bogwog9 days ago

I used to love Thinkpads until I started using laptops with displays that aren't dog shit.

I can adapt to a bad keyboard, lack of trackpoint and bad touchpad, but a bad screen will always bother me.

smoldesu8 days ago

This is especially a problem on the older models. Some Thinkpads are really excellent machines besides their unfortunate 720p, TN panels.

Admittedly though, Lenovo seemed to get their act together on later laptops. My T460s has a matte 1080p display with 90%+ DCI P3 coverage, which is pretty good for a $300 used laptop.

nathanasmith8 days ago

I ordered a 1080p screen and controller from Aliexpress for my trusty old Lenovo T420. Installed in about 30 minutes and worked perfectly. The difference in image quality versus the original crap panel is huge.

opan8 days ago

On the T440p you can swap in a screen from a Razer Blade. There are probably similar things you can do to other models.

nixcraft9 days ago

Older Asus fold had many issues with Linux. In most cases, you can get headless mode working but forget about GUI. A better solution would be trying out System76, HPDevOne or Dell XPS dev edition for Linux desktop.

sjamaan9 days ago

The Purism Librem 14 isn't half bad either. Currently using it. Love the build quality of the case, matte screen and kill switches. Quality of the built-in speakers is not that great. Keyboard is acceptable. The trackpad is nice and big.

nailer9 days ago

Yes same here!

*Everyone is making this manually*. I carry around a music stand, a keyboard and mouse. My laptop has a keyboard I never use.

GIVE US A PORTABLE SCREEN PC THAT RAISES TO EYE LEVEL AND TAKE OUR MONEY.

pjmlp9 days ago

Most likely only if packaged in ChromeOS or Android workloads, which isn't what you're asking for, but is what OEMs care about after the netbooks market vanished.

driverdan9 days ago

I have a Surface Pro 7 and it's great for this. It doesn't have a matte screen but does the rest of it well. I'm running PopOS on it and switch between the included keyboard and an external keyboard with it on a tablet arm.

Dave3of59 days ago

If you don't mind selling your soul to the devil, dell have a range that support linux.

A newer brand that will run linux is the framework laptop that's my personal recommendation.

As for the matte screen you can buy films for both of those that will make the screen matte. Here is the ones for the framework:

https://viascreens.com/screen-protectors/framework/

You should note that mat screens generally sacrifice contrast and colour saturation.

I suspect you won't be happy with any of this though as most hn commenters are extremely picky about these sorts of things.

emehrkay8 days ago

https://en.jingos.com/jingpad-a1/ maybe. I doubt the screen is matte

leephillips9 days ago

I use the Microsoft Surface Pro 3 this way (other models run Linux well, also). However, the screen is not matte.

nvr2199 days ago

Dell XPS with Linux is great

nivenkos9 days ago

How would you use Linux when using it as a tablet though?

weberer9 days ago

The PineTab, but its been sold out for quite a while.

bluGill9 days ago

Should be back in stock "soon"... Though I'm keeping an eye on the pipenote instead now - more powerful CPU. Instead of LCD it is epaper which as pros and cons for this use.

crakhamster019 days ago

Pretty cool tech, but from the Dave2D video, the crease + bulkiness is still bad enough to be a dealbreaker for me (and I imagine many others as well).

I find it interesting that companies like Asus, Samsung, etc. frequently put out these devices that feature emerging tech, but clearly aren't ready for primetime. You would never catch Apple releasing something like this since they have brand value to protect, but Asus seems to be fine risking that in order to claim the title of "first to market".

One day this tech will be ready for the masses, and I imagine that's when Apple will release something. Why are companies like Asus spending money on marketing that "warms up" the general audience to this tech, only to have Apple come eat their lunch a few years later?

laumars9 days ago

Rise tinted glasses much? Apple have had more than their fair share of bad tech. Such as fanless computers overheating, keyboards that break, monitor hinges that tear the monitor cable, and the first iPhone had fewer features than many of the “dumb” feature phones released years prior.

I say this as someone who owns a lot of Apple hardware too. So this isn’t some anti Apple bias

Moreover it’s pretty absurd to say that hugely popular products aren’t ready for the prime time. The fact they’re popular and sell well means they precisely were.

crakhamster019 days ago

Haha yea maybe my glasses are a little tinted, but I think you're conflating two different points. Apple has released flawed products in the past, but they rarely (never?) include emerging tech that isn't polished enough for mainstream consumption. I say this as a former Android user who loved touting that "Android had that feature first", but it's hard to deny that features like mobile payments have just been executed better by Apple.

Also, since when are foldable OLEDs hugely popular?

saghm8 days ago

> Apple has released flawed products in the past, but they rarely (never?) include emerging tech that isn't polished enough for mainstream consumption.

I'm not sure "they screw up well-established and fully-functional tech rather than new, innovative, and risky tech" is really that good a compliment.

solarkraft8 days ago

They also keep questioning the status quo with what's already established, which is something I really like. Most are stuck with local maxima because they're afraid to change things that "work" (badly) while Apple dares to change things for (in their opinion) the better.

It's usually small things, but they add up over time and now they have a massive edge.

... oh, in the last few generations they also managed to integrate "normal" stuff like double tap to wake to iPhones as well, I was pretty pleased to find that that just worked.

+1
bhupy8 days ago
sascha_sl9 days ago

AirPower is the example you're looking for. They decided to cancel it instead of shipping a product that'd not be up to their standards.

solarkraft8 days ago

> I say this as a former Android user who loved touting that "Android had that feature first", but it's hard to deny that features like mobile payments have just been executed better by Apple.

This, but like 10x. It's like most non-Apple manufacturers just bash shit together without ever looking whether it even works and then lose interest in 1 or 2 generations.

Apple eventually comes along and uses the technology to provide actual value and people on HN are surprised that this time people actually like it.

+1
woojoo6668 days ago
breakfastduck8 days ago

Apple have rarely been the first to do stuff in the past 10/20 years. They have, however, been frequently the first to do something really well.

entropicdrifter9 days ago

The Galaxy Z Flip 3 has been a massive hit, and the much more expensive Fold 3 has likewise seen unexpectedly high sales: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-sold-more-foldables...

+1
crakhamster018 days ago
laumars9 days ago

I’ve seen plenty of people round my way sporting those phones.

upupandup8 days ago

It's ridiculous how much of a premium people pay towards Apple.

breakfastduck8 days ago

Value is relative. Take the iPod. I would rather pay the premium for it even though it does much the same as competitors. Because it does it just that little bit better, that's still worth a lot more.

samstave9 days ago

>"You would never catch Apple releasing something like this since they have brand value to protect"

-

Do you recall the original iphone lacked a bunch of really "duh" features at first. The main one being no copy+paste?

Sure, Apple has made mistakes...

No way to iron out the wrinkles in your foldable OLED screens until you get enough people to try them on first.

BoorishBears9 days ago

You're being way too defensive here.

The iPhone was revolutionary, lacking some software features at launch was nothing that couldn't be fixed.

What the post above clearly means is releasing hardware that's still a few iterations from being "mainstream appealing"

If you actually follow the story of the iPhone, Apple could have released a bulkier more primitive version, but Steve Jobs refused because it wouldn't have mainstream appeal.

And Apple just seems to be more conservative in the feature wars in general. They held out the longest on OLEDs, they held out the longest on 120hz, etc. all until it was practically "boring" tech.

samstave9 days ago

My only point was, that sure the FOLED is new, but heck, I had the first gen iPhone on day one, and every single version up to X

So, Sure, its novel - but give it a try.

I am not being overly defensive of apple, I am saying, this is the HN croud, I have always been an early adopter, ever since the 80s...

So I dont poo-poo on this thing. I love it.

The only feature I _really_ want this machine to have is IP68 waterproofing or better.

Imagine a smaller size of this device that attached to a divers arm, but can be 'curved' to the shape of the SCU-Bracer-9000.

laumars9 days ago

The stuff you’re critiquing does have mainstream appeal though. If it didn’t they wouldn’t sell well. Yet they do.

Honestly, the views here smack more of elitism than any deep understanding of what the mainstream like.

+1
BoorishBears9 days ago
codethief9 days ago

Not sure I'd want to iron my foldable OLED screen just to get it straight again.

colinmhayes9 days ago

Apple released that butterfly keyboard. The MacBook line was absolutely suffering for years until the redesign that came with m1

michaelsalim9 days ago

This is really exciting. Being able to fold will make it so much easier to carry around. My dream is to have a 24 or even a 27 inch monitor that you can fit in an every day backpack.

I don't really care that it's also a laptop. Heck, I don't get why you would ever want a foldable phone. But foldable monitor at this size makes a lot of difference in packing.

At 17 inch, it's not the biggest difference since you can still fit that in a backpack. 24 inch? Good luck. But I'd imagine the size to increase over time. Surprised nobody is talking more about this.

drcode8 days ago

> I don't get why you would ever want a foldable phone.

I like having what is essentially an iPad in my pocket at all times (insofar as an Android tablet is an iPad)

dheera9 days ago

I wonder if it would have a crease in the middle over a long time. I've seen people with folding phones, they look cool at first but after 6 months they look like shit.

risho9 days ago

does this double as a monitor? i might have missed it but it didn't say anything about that.

can16358p9 days ago

But what is the software support for the folding screen? The hardware is cool and assuming it doesn't break in a few months, I see the lack of much software support as the biggesr adoption roadblocker.

I don't think just treating it as one big screen or two/three separate screens without any more context would be enough.

nicbou8 days ago

Considering that Windows struggles to reliably support bog standard laptops, I wouldn't add another layer of potential bugs.

tootie9 days ago

I don't see why not. I don't think it folds to arbitrary configurations. It will just toggle between two different rectangles. Modern PCs handle plugging and unplugging external monitors no problem

can16358p9 days ago

It's about the context.

Modern PCs have an external monitor in addition to the main one just to extend the area. This one, because of its placement especially in the semi-folded form, would unlikely to be used just like a normal display, because of their position and rotation relative to the user, that one sees in front of their eyes, so additional software measures would be needed to make use of that space efficiently to, say (making it up), keep app windows on the main area but move shortcuts, desktop items, widgets to the bottom area etc.

martijn_himself9 days ago

I don't really get the appeal of folding screens, but then I didn't get the appeal of iPads when it was announced.

One thing I would love is an iPhone / iPad that docks and dual boots into macOS powering a monitor- surely that should be technically possible by now.

alberth9 days ago

Anyone who works on a job site will love this (e.g. architects, electricians, plumbers, etc).

Much like on the other extremely, pilots absolutely love the tiny iPad Mini because it can easily fit in the cockpit (and even be mounted to the windshield).

pmontra9 days ago

For a laptop, it's a small machine with a large screen. For a desktop, don't know.

This is probably going to cost a lot and installing Linux would probably mean to forfeit all the screen modes except one (I don't expect much driver support - but maybe xrandr?) anyway I can see me buying something like that.

Too bad for the missing touchpad buttons (three of them, this is almost a deal breaker), wonderful not having a number pad, I didn't check if it can be upgraded (RAM, SSD) and which ports it has. My wishes: video, ethernet, 3.5 audio jack, at least two USB A 3.0, USB C would be ok, I bet there are adapters for old hardware.

sumedh9 days ago

> but then I didn't get the appeal of iPads when announced.

Let me guess you dont have kids.

martijn_himself9 days ago

I do see the appeal now, just not when it was announced in 2010 (I think a lot of people didn't at the time).

ChuckNorris899 days ago

Not parent and I don't have kids but if I did, there's no way I'm giving them an ipad.

They can have coloring books, crayons, Legos and building blocks, doll houses, physical plastic, wooden and plush toys, restricted access to PCs/consoles, but no portable smart devices with screens, online connection and spyware apps.

By kids I'm talking about pre-teens. They can get smart devices when they're teenagers.

can16358p9 days ago

So... the kids will probably not have much friends as all the other kids will be socializing online even if that's inferior to physical friendship.

Good or bad, that is the norm now and if you don't let your kid access to a tablet while all the other kids do, that child will be lacking a lot of confidence and practical tech skills.

A balance with both iPad time and physical activity time would be a better tradeoff IMO.

+2
JadeNB9 days ago
+1
ChuckNorris899 days ago
ccbccccbbcccbb9 days ago

The society where children "will probably" have less friends for not having a key to access this privilege, in this case a gadget, is totally FUBAR.

eddieroger9 days ago

Unless your kids are network engineers who can join wifi networks or get around firewalls, or hackers who can defeat parental controls, you should be able to control what they do on an iPad pretty easily, including making it an offline device. You can even lock them in to a single app if you really wanted to.

sumedh9 days ago

There are some things which you should not answer unless you have experienced it yourself. Having kids is one of them.

All your activity sounds good on paper but real life does not work like that. Kids are smart, they can see you are on your smart device, they can see others are on their phones/ipads when they go outside. You dont want your kid to be a social outcast.

Sometimes when you want to do your chores or want some quiet time for yourself the best solution is to give your kids an ipad so that they remain busy.

dest9 days ago

Parent of three, eldest is 8. For quiet time, she reads a book. No screens, no smart devices.

cowtools9 days ago

I don't think that's a responsible attitude to have. "You dont want your kid to be a social outcast", sure, but sometimes you have to lay down the law. That starts with setting an example yourself.

If you're always on your phone, you're sending your children the social signal that that's OK.

+1
skor8 days ago
martijn_himself9 days ago

I agree this is a good attitude and start off point for parents-to-be but I have to agree with other commenters that it is impractical and goes out the window pretty quickly unless you have nerves of steel :). Imagine for example being on a flight with a toddler throwing a tantrum, for the sake of everyone's sanity an iPad is a wonderful device.

Having said that it is all about balance, and limiting screen time is a good way to go about it.

iasay9 days ago

Some parenting advice: if your toddler loses their marbles, do not pacify them with a reward. That's a seriously bad idea.

I found the best low stress and low effort solution was to be a larger drama than they are. This culminated in myself lying on the floor in the Lakeside shopping centre in the UK screaming my head off. Oh yes I can do it too. And it makes you look like a dick when I do it. Make sure you talk to them at the same level afterwards. You are now equals :)

She never did it again after that and has been a joy. Advice has worked for other people.

prmoustache9 days ago

> agree this is a good attitude and start off point for parents-to-be but I have to agree with other commenters that it is impractical and goes out the window pretty quickly unless you have nerves of steel :). Imagine for example being on a flight with a toddler throwing a tantrum, for the sake of everyone's sanity an iPad is a wonderful device.

It doesn't have to be the kid's iPad though.

We have a "family" nintendo switch. I sure don't mind if they play with it on the plane, but at home they only have access to it on request and within a limited time. Same as for a laptop if they want to watch something or my eldest daughter's phone. There is no way these devices stay in their room either. I give them an allotted time, and all these devices need to get back to my office where the charging cables are once time is over. And if for some reason they try to cheat and use the fact I am busy with something to not take notice they are still using it, they get punished for a week without access to said device.

In the end I am glad my daughters are so creative and spend so much time drawing, building things with cardboard, glue and tape, or play outside. Usually screen time is limited to when I am cooking for dinner, after they took a shower. They still aren't stranger to tech but don't need to be hooked on social medias. My daughter's phone is mostly used to play music and for whatsapp, as well as camera when we go out. But since her time on it is limited, every comm is asynchronous and doesn't end with her having to answer to every single notification right away.

lwhi9 days ago

From knowing parents, I'd be willing to bet you'd eventually change your mind ..

ccbccccbbcccbb9 days ago

Haha, man, gotta love how you get downvoted for wanting to be a proper loving father and not someone who outsources the upbringing of their children to youtube and roblox!

iasay9 days ago

It's a tool. Another creative outlet. I bought my kids ipads and apple pencils and they love them. My eldest, now at university bought a new iPad Pro recently and uses that exclusively as her work computer.

What you're doing is enforcing a semi-luddite position on your own kids because you can only leave them unattended with old things. Just be a parent ffs.

+2
ChuckNorris899 days ago
ndiddy9 days ago

In early childhood, children's brains will rapidly adapt to their environment (https://academic.oup.com/pch/article/11/9/571/2648303?login=...), for example Aboriginal Australian children develop strong spatial cognition to survive in an environment with few landmarks (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/001002...). It'll be interesting to see what happens when the generation of children whose brains have adapted to oversaturated, constantly changing, narrative-free stimuli by being raised on YouTube Kids reaches adulthood.

JadeNB9 days ago

> It'll be interesting to see what happens when the generation of children whose brains have adapted to oversaturated, constantly changing, narrative-free stimuli by being raised on YouTube Kids reaches adulthood.

This sounds word for word like worries about the first generation of children raised with ready access to TVs.

cowtools9 days ago

It could be a difference in kind, not merely a difference in degree. Besides, who is to say that TV did not have negative effects?

sumedh9 days ago

You can make the same arguments in the past about kids watching TV and then kids using a PC.

In 10 years, parents will be complaining about AR/VR

+1
rpmisms8 days ago
preisschild9 days ago

I'd just wish for an arm64 laptop that isn't made by Apple.

Software development is getting more and more relevant on arm, and using native tools is way better than cross-compiling.

OLED is pretty cool though.

vips7L9 days ago

Lenovo just launched the Thinkpad X13s with an ARM CPU. My only issue with it is that it's fanless: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/th...

jeroenhd9 days ago

Sadly, Qualcom's performance is still laughable compared to Apple's M1. You can get a Macbook air for around the same price that runs twice as fast (and probably has better speakers). If you intend to run Windows, you'll also run into slower x64 applications more often than with a Mac.

I'm really not sure what the advantage would be for picking a Qualcom processor over getting an i3 or lower end AMD APU.

Someone really needs to step up ARM processor design because no matter how much I detest Apple's business practices, I can't deny that their ARM chip is far superior to the rest of the market.

bogwog9 days ago

> Someone really needs to step up ARM processor design because no matter how much I detest Apple's business practices, I can't deny that their ARM chip is far superior to the rest of the market

Never going to happen unless regulators do something about Qualcomm's monopoly. Apple is pretty much the only company with the resources to fight them, yet they still can't get away from Qualcomm parts even in their latest iPhones.

If it wasn't for Qualcomm, I think powerful ARM workstations would've arrived much, much sooner (among other innovations). But of course, monopolies are an enemy of innovation.

EDIT: Okay, "never" may be an exaggeration, but if it's going to happen, it's going to happen on Qualcomm's schedule, not the free market's.

Dracophoenix8 days ago

> Never going to happen unless regulators do something about Qualcomm's monopoly. Apple is pretty much the only company with the resources to fight them, yet they still can't get away from Qualcomm parts even in their latest iPhones.

The regulators would be hard-pressed as they have nothing to regulate. Qualcomm doesn't have a monopoly on the ARM ISA. Samsung, Mediatek, Fujitsu, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, etc. all have licenses. Even Microsoft and Google have designed their own ARM processors.

Qualcomm has nothing to do with ARM aside from being a licensee itself. Apple's contentions with Qualcomm center on, inter alia Qualcomm's already awarded patents on cellular modems and the licensing fees it charges Apple.

> If it wasn't for Qualcomm, I think powerful ARM workstations would've arrived much, much sooner (among other innovations). But of course, monopolies are an enemy of innovation.

Intel already tried with StrongARM/XScale to little noteworthy success. Nvidia has achieved limited success with Tegra, but mainly in automotive dashboards and their Shield boxes. All of this is the free market at work. Qualcomm isn't necessary for ARM laptops to fail and his historically had little to do with it.

fomine38 days ago

Qualcomm acquired Nuvia, hope they release good cores.

vips7L9 days ago

IIRC while it does under perform apples CPU’s it performed as well as intel’s mobile i5’s

candiddevmike9 days ago

Pinebook Pro meets your criteria but I think you'd find it too slow. So you want an arm64 laptop that's also fast and with a decent amount of memory.

I wonder if we're at the point yet where I can use my phone with a foldable screen and keyboard as a workstation.

piaste9 days ago

Didn't Samsung use to sell a docking station for phones? Whatever happened to it?

With so much applications moving to the web (eg. gitpod), even an Android phone would make for a suitable desktop.

weberer9 days ago

Like half the Chromebooks out there have ARM processors.

olliej8 days ago

This seems much more useful than the plethora of folding phones from a year or so back. Like doubling the size of a phone's screen doesn't get it to a size that is more useful imo - I don't watch tv/video on my phone, so I realize the value may be different for others.

But being able to have 17" of real-estate without having a 17" rectangle seems like a big deal, and I can see the half size also being more useful.

I remain worried about creasing, etc but I think those are technical things that are going to be resolved eventually. Making a device that is useful when switching between two screen sizes is the product issue, and on face/marketing image this looks like a great concept to me.

rowanG0779 days ago

Honestly I don't get the hate. I would love this form factor. I used a Surface Pro for years and loved it. This looks to be superiour in every way.

seltzered_9 days ago

I run a subreddit on ergonomic mobile computers ( https://reddit.com/r/ergomobilecomputers ) and find this intriguing.

Aside from concerns about the folding display, the keyboard is wireless and detachable unlike a Microsoft surface, so you can actually put the display on a stand and not worry about craning your neck down - all with the stock keyboard. In my setup I actually have the screen close up such that I no longer need to wear eyeglasses when at the computer anymore.

samstave9 days ago

Ive used the foldable oled samsung phone a few times, and I REALLY like foldable OLEDs -- No idea how long they will hold up (how many folds between noticing the wear on the screen in that area, pixel failures (do OLEDs have pixels/failure of pixels?)

But what will be dope is seeing these in kiosk like control panels in series, like this https://i.imgur.com/4n0Rld8.jpg

I like these... I wonder if we can have an "Environmental Impact" Rating on consumer electronics these days.

bbertelsen9 days ago

For me personally, this is exactly what I want. On days where I have meetings. It's a tablet for note taking. On days where I'm studying, it's a PDF reader either in 12.5" mode or 17" mode depending on the symbols. On days where I'm coding I would probably pair this with a g915 tlk and a second 15" portable monitor. That's a very reasonable workstation in a bag and wouldn't be heavy at all. The flexibility to be different types of devices in just one laptop is excellent. Where do I buy it?

eterps9 days ago

AFAIK there is absolutely no innovation with software defined keyboards, they statically mimic a physical keyboard. I would expect well defined open APIs so that applications tailor the keyboard for optimal contextualized use for that app. The only thing that came close is Apple's touchbar but even that one is quite static and not very liberating in practice. Of course the downside of adaptive software keyboards is that you have a slightly different keyboard layout per application, so mostly a feature for experienced and professional users.

jmiskovic9 days ago

Adaptive keyboards are actually more oriented towards beginners than advanced users. They optimize for feature discoverability (and coolness factor).

Physical keyboard is current optimum for text entry precisely because it is not adaptable, and that enables you to adapt to it. Without muscle memory you are much, much slower. When an advanced user wants to refresh page, they can instantly recall Ctrl+R combo and just press it, without glancing down and coordinating between hand and eye to tap the icon, and then verifying the tap was registered. With adaptable keyboards the advanced users lose all their edge.

That said, swiping is really nice way to enter English text on touchscreens. I still hate switching to numbers and special characters, or entering non-dictionary words, but it works unexpectedly good. I agree with you that more innovation is needed.

eterps9 days ago

> they can instantly recall Ctrl+R combo and just press it, without glancing down and coordinating between hand and eye to tap the icon

Interesting example, I can imagine something like an Ctrl+R combo to be a bit cumbersome on a software keyboard, would need to test it to be sure though.

xSxY3fj5gVCmvWE9 days ago

Touch keyboards don't sound very liberating. I think experienced/professional users will be an especially bad fit for this. Imagine having to constantly look down at the keyboard to see what contextual options are available. It's like getting a new keyboard and having to get used to a different layout, except it's forever. Say goodbye to your flow state, hope you haven't gotten used to it.

That said, this laptop seems to include a physical keyboard, so maybe it's not that bad. I hope manufacturers keep experimenting with computer form factors, but preferably sane, human-centric ones.

eterps9 days ago

> Say goodbye to your flow state

I see what you mean here, but am not so sure about that to be honest. We just haven't seen much innovation here IMO. It could specifically optimize for flow, somewhat reminiscent of Github Copilot and the suggestions in phone keyboards.

For example I am wondering how a keyboard could adapt in a spreadsheet application if you focus on a non-empty cell. Depending on what's already there, there might be a predictable set of options on what is likely to be done next. (without limiting free form either).

I don't have good examples, because I simply don't know what could be done. But I am convinced that something that statically mimics a physical keyboard can be improved upon.

WithinReason9 days ago

This seems like it would be such a basic idea, e.g. holding down crtl would show you button combinations on each key that use ctrl.

ilaksh9 days ago

I think eventually (5-10 years?) most "laptops" may be using on-screen keyboards. Especially if there is somewhat decent haptic feedback.

It just makes so much more sense from a manufacturing standpoint for one thing. Makes it much simpler and you don't need to create separate keyboard layouts for different languages.

Also, younger generations are quite comfortable using on-screen keyboards on their phones.

But what will really make it take off is contextual and customizable user interfaces that sit next to the virtual letter and symbol keys. Which of course there could be many more symbols or emojis available in subkeyboards or for different contexts.

clintonwoo9 days ago

I have some doubts about this, since I feel like using a screen as a keyboard is more prone to joint based injury or wear and tear like posture or RSI related problems. So at least I don't think it would be the main keyboard type.

twobitshifter8 days ago

there was the keyboard with led screens being each key. That kept it physical but made things adaptive for applications.

jmartrican9 days ago

I'm a programmer that spends a lot of time programming on my laptop without an extra screen. I use 15" laptops exclusively because it has a decent balance between screen size and portability. But when coding (and a lot of coding is done over Zoom where folks with bigger screens are sharing their desktops) every little bit of real-estate counts. So the idea of having a 17" in a more portable form factor, and weight is very intriguing. Like its crazy to think a 17" laptop can be under 4 lbs (3.3 lbs to be exact).

samstave9 days ago

I HIGHLY recommend you grab a couple of these: AOC USB Screens [0]. They are cheap, LIGHT, and great. I have two of them with my also 15" Omen laptop.[1] So I have a full size gaming/workstation machine, and TWO external screens, at 1920 while the machine is 2500 resolution... and ALL of this fits in my backpack. and is super light.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/AOC-I1659FWUX-USB-Powered-Portable-19...

[1] https://i.imgur.com/MJNWvif.jpg

(Also, I am designing a bracket using the VESA mount screws on the back of the screens to attach them to the small camera tripods I have which are also very light and fit in backpack - this way, I can mount one screen behind the laptop, and have that screen directly above my laptop screen, and then another to the side.)

Ayesh9 days ago

If it's pair programming or collaborative programming you are after, I'd suggest Code With Me on latest Jetbrains IDEs. The code is E2E encrypted over Jetbrains servers, or you can even self-host. Makes presentations, lessons a breeze too.

notacoward9 days ago

I would love something like this if it used a real hinge or a slide instead of a folding screen. Best of all IMO would be a three part screen (two hinges/slides) with a 1:2:1 ratio so that the line - which can be small with modern bezel-less design but still present - won't be in the middle. That makes it usable for games etc. as well as many tiled terminal/editor windows. Innovation is great and all, kudos to them for trying this, but validating the UX aspects separately from the base display technology seems worthwhile.

CivBase9 days ago

As a replacement for my laptop, I hate this. But as an auxiliary tablet, this is much more interesting. If I had a good use case for a tablet, a folding one that runs Windows sounds much more appealing than a flat tablet running Android or iPadOS.

My biggest complaint is that I see no indication that this could accept a video input and double as a portable display. If it did that, I would start to consider something like this for myself even without an obvious use case for a tablet.

gorgoiler9 days ago

This could be such an enormous game changing format. What an exciting time this is.

For me, the idea of being able to lift up the keyboard and reveal a second screen is just crazy exciting. Fluidity in format feels like the next great leap in mobile computing.

To that end, I wonder we haven’t yet seen devices without multiple detachable wireless screens? I would love to detach a screen off the back of my MacBook — when I had space to — and have an impromptu second display.

chadlavi9 days ago

Can't wait til everyone gets this foldable screen nonsense out of their system. It's all destined for a tech oddities display in a museum.

viraptor9 days ago

I think there's a good user story for it. I'm normally working at home (folded, docked), in the car/train (small laptop), or in a room away from home (full size). I don't have experience with large foldables, but I'm theory this is a perfect form for me - and I love large screens (already carrying a 15.5) I'm also likely to keep it folded at home for weeks, so the hinge durability would be less of an issue.

wslh9 days ago

Nice system but it is ironic that nowadays many people are moving to Apple Silicon just for the battery. Beyond the better specs like touch screens, cameras resolution, etc.

Going back in time I just now recognize and remember that one key aspect of the Palm original devices was battery duration comparing to previous experience (e.g. Newton) in innovations.

varispeed9 days ago

For me the battery was the least of concern - I am used to having my laptop plugged at all times. Any laptop I had wouldn't last more than an hour on battery after few months of use.

The selling point for me was silent operation and performance. For instance, my XPS 15 will wake up fans even after entering the BIOS and just opening a browser tab with a heavier website would make them fans spin like airplane blades. It's so annoying that I dread everytime I have to work on it. Yes, I would clean the fans regularly etc.

Working on a Mac M1 is a pure bliss. It feels next level in every aspect and the battery life is outstanding. The fact that I can run the laptop in low power mode and it is still much more performant than my XPS is mindblowing.

pnut9 days ago

I find this potentially intriguing for my use case, which is 95% working from home in a fixed office arrangement.

Under those circumstances, if this can drive two external monitors, I could have the best of both worlds- a big third monitor for my primary work situation, but then it's the same device but mobile when I need to go into the office etc.

happyopossum8 days ago

> a big third monitor

In what sense is a 17" monitor "big"? It's barely any larger than a lot of regular laptop screens.

varispeed9 days ago

I really didn't want to do this, but I bit the bullet and bought M1 MacBook Pro. Oh, having previously worked on XPS 15, this laptop is like next level in terms of pretty much everything. I feel like manufacturers putting Intel or (to an extent) AMD processor in any laptop just waste their time. Sure there will be people who will buy it (who don't know about M1/M2), but it's like buying a legacy technology for premium price. So while the folding screen looks impressive, I can't help but think it is just an expensive gimmick. Rather than churning very much the same laptops year on year I wish manufacturers spent some time on designing a new CPU if Intel and AMD can't keep up or trying to license the CPU tech from Apple.

viraptor9 days ago

You're comparing an (I'm guessing) few years old xps that needed replacing, to a last year's premium quality/pricing laptop. I know Intel is still behind on efficiency, but you should try a 12th gen with p/e cores before you write the whole thing off as legacy.

Also I'm not sure apple wants to license anything - they're doing quite well keeping the design to themselves.

varispeed8 days ago

I had a couple of generations of XPS and I am not convinced it will be much different. I watched a few comparison videos on YT and there was no contest. Laptop would have to be constantly plugged to achieve similar performance to M1 and the fans... the fans is a deal breaker for me. Intel is far far behind now, even with the 12th gen.

hu39 days ago

Problem with Apple computers is their software. Hardware is great though.

Until it can run Linux smoothly it will be undesirable for me.

drusepth8 days ago

I scrolled all the way through and couldn't find a price and/or a release date. Does anyone have the numbers?

I've been using a Lenovo Yoga Book (10" foldable running Android with virtual keyboard/wacom on second "screen") for years now that this would be the PERFECT upgrade for. Love the ratio, love the screen size, and love the screen versatility. Took me a few months to get used to typing on a screen, but it's kind of a non-factor now; being able to bring your own keyboard for an even bigger screen though.. that's a killer feature IMO -- as long as the crease isn't too noticable and the hinge actually lasts a long time.

Multicomp9 days ago

I've been wanting a Microsoft Courier since they first did that concept video - I'm getting one of these Asus ones even if it is very early days. This Asus has a better setup than the X1 fold, I've saved up the cash, I want one.

The current ultimate OneNote device!

k__9 days ago

That's the first time I see foldable displays put to good use.

Nice!

april_229 days ago

Lenovo also had a similar laptop released a year ago. This one is still really cool though!

Hippocrates9 days ago

It blows my mind that companies have the resources to sink into "innovations" like this that are just so far out that they are sure to fail. The mere sight of this stresses me out with how fragile it looks, and how clumsy it would be to use

anony9999 days ago

The innovations in this area are incremental so you won't get the best out of it now. Investment into bending oled already went into smartphones so migrating it to laptops doest require signifiant capital. I would take this over a new set of "emoji innovation" and new OS skin/theme anytime.

I must confess that I like bending/folding screens and "rolling screens" even more (i.e. for TVs). I would fold my iphone if I could(assuming that the screen would not get worse) and I would love to double the screensize of my macbook air or shink it into an ipad.

nottorp9 days ago

No. If companies didn't sink resources into "innovations" like this you'd still travel around on faster horses.

Let them burn some budget on crazy ideas, some will stick.

asdajksah21239 days ago

Why does it look any more fragile than an iPad, for example?

jsheard9 days ago

We haven't solved the "bendable glass" problem yet, so foldable displays are made of soft plastic which is extremely easy to damage compared to the toughened glass you're accustomed to. You can put a permanent dent in them with your fingernail if you're not careful.

drcode8 days ago

Had my Samsung fold3 a full year now, the foldable screen is surprisingly still as good as new

o_m9 days ago

An iPad have no moving mechanical parts, and are in an aluminum body that doesn't flex.

rasz9 days ago

Iphone 6 says hi https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/270055-documents-reveal-a...

apple decided to use a paper sticker in place of metal shield, turns out whoever designed the phone in the first place used that metal shield as a structural element. No shield = bendy phone = Touch IC just so happen to be located at the bend and its balls pop off. You end up with

https://www.lifewire.com/iphone-touch-disease-4120914

deltathreetwo9 days ago

The iphone was at one point in time the same innovation as this and at that time there were plenty of people like you calling it an "obvious" failure.

At the time people were talking about how hard and clumsy it was to type on and getting your finger grease all over the screen of the phone.

quickthrower29 days ago

How did that foldable phone craze a few years ago go? Are they still around?

asdajksah21239 days ago
muro9 days ago

They are around and actually very good. I got a flip 3 for my wife and I wish I got one myself, too. While not bad, the camera could be better - I like the pixel camera more.

rowanG0779 days ago

Ya they are still around. Getting steadily less expensive.

user_named9 days ago

It's still going. I remember I t ied one in person, felt like a layer of tape on top of two displays.

flatiron9 days ago

IIRC the first thing people did with those phones is rip the “tape” off just to realize their phone was now broken.

GekkePrutser9 days ago

That was just the first Galaxy fold. On the later ones you can safely remove the screenprotector

remram9 days ago

I would buy a laptop with two separate screens that unfold. I need the extra space to show more windows, not bigger windows, so I wouldn't mind them being separate panels. With different sizes even.

edit: Maybe I should just buy a portable monitor.

prmoustache9 days ago

I want to see high-res pictures of that device after 2, 5 and 10 simulated years of use.

nreilly9 days ago

I expect days/weeks is probably enough to see the wear you’re looking for.

bluelightning2k9 days ago

This looks really cool. Imagine if Apple had released this.

Even the software stuff is genuinely very interesting: use a tablet and phone as external screens when I'm travelling? Smart background noise reduction? Yes please!

cr3ative9 days ago

I can't help but see folding screens as a limited-life product. Sure, laptops only last, usefully, about 6 years anyway, but it's such an obvious wear spot which would cripple the entire device.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Tepix9 days ago

It's advertised as being stress tested with 30,000 folds. That should last quite a bit longer than 6 years for most people.

bizzleDawg9 days ago

When I read about the 30,000 cycles, I can't help but picture a mechanism which performs a "perfect" opening/closing cycle with equal force distribution.

How many cycles would that translate to when being opened/closed on the go by pulling on a corner? Or being used by a toddler?

iasay9 days ago

That figure doesn't make sense other than from a marketing perspective. It is missing all the important engineering questions...

How many did they test?

What's the standard deviation?

What does the bell curve look like?

What are the test conditions?

What happens when you put this in the hands of an average user who does not conform to the test conditions?

ddalex9 days ago

Please show me this data from any other manufacturer... take Apple, do they put out how many drops they test their latest iPhone, the one that they advertise doesn't need a cover? The standard deviation, Bell curve?

Nobody cares about this - what people care about is: What happens when this breaks ? If Asus offers good warranty on it, why does it matter when it breaks??

happyopossum8 days ago

> the one that they advertise doesn't need a cover

Uhh, they don't do that. They sell cases - their own and 3rd party - right in the store next to the iPhones.

+1
iasay9 days ago
sz4kerto9 days ago

Samsung's recent foldable phones (e.g. Galaxy Z Fold 3) are proving to be quite reliable, the crease is still visible to some extent but they don't tend to break.

iasay9 days ago

Call me when they’re as durable as a decent modern iPhone…

chrismorgan9 days ago

Micro-USB plugs are supposed to be designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. My experience has not had one last even 2,000 cycles before becoming unreliable, even for cables that have always been used in ideal circumstances (gently plugged in, resting on a table). As for ones where the device gets used while plugged in, moved around, occasional lateral forces on the plug, well, they’re generally just about completely useless before 2,000 cycles.

USB-C plugs are supposed to be 10,000 cycles too. The A–to–C cable that came with my PinePhone was dead at the C plug end within four months of daily usage with occasional somewhat-stronger-than-ideal-but-not-all-that-excessive forces being applied. A couple of other cables haven’t had issues so far.

When they say 30,000 here, I’d be surprised to get 3,000 before significant problems are apparent, and wouldn’t be surprised if I failed to get 300. I like the idea and want it to work, but don’t expect it to just yet. I wish they’d focus their effort on having two separate screens with a small gap between them rather than trying to straddle the hinge, because that would be somewhere between almost as good and slightly better, and much more likely to be reliable.

This is still early tech. Early generations of mechanically-difficult things are generally terrible. I can speak to the unreliability of the Surface Book hinge: I had four units (19 months with moderate issues by the end (mild battery pillowage, screen yellowing, several split keycaps) that led to warranty replacement; 8 months then battery 2 spontaneously died; roughly DOA; two years before battery 1 died and it was out of warranty and after only a little more use it’s now pretty much a brick, can’t even stay powered on and significant pillowage on both batteries), and their base/clipboard, base/power and clipboard/power connections (which were basically the same interface) always became not completely reliable well within a year, though they weren’t particularly troublesome until maybe fifteen or eighteen months. I do acknowledge that I used this hardware fairly hard, but it was consistently well under a thousand cycles before at least minor issues in the connection were apparent, and these OLED hinges are probably even more demanding.

adrianN9 days ago

I've had a couple of laptops where the mechanical hinges became wonky after a couple of years. Intuitively they should be a lot sturdier than a folding screen, but perhaps intuition is misleading.

sz4kerto9 days ago

Early adopters (both on the user and the production side) are very much required to get to something usable eventually.

scrollaway9 days ago

Isn’t the fold on current laptops a weak spot now? I’ve had laptops die to that.

I get it’s tempting to say this will be worse but, will it? I don’t think it’s fair to say this immediately…

iasay9 days ago

Only if you buy bottom end crap and beat it around. Lenovo / Apple hinges are pretty good.

Foldable displays have several million times more parts being folded...

Kaibeezy9 days ago

I just spent a pleasant hour fixing a friend's Lenovo hinge. Disassemble, cyanoacrylate adhesive, reduce hinge tension, wait/beer, reassemble.

Unimaginably poor design detail and QA on the tension setting. Many of this and other Yoga models junked on account of it. Easy enough repair though.

+2
iasay9 days ago
belter9 days ago

I though OLED burn-in was still a real issue?

"How real is risk of OLED burn in?": https://www.reddit.com/r/4kTV/comments/r0l7cj/how_real_is_ri...

"Being an Early Adopter SUCKS - Trying to Fix Burn-in on my LG CX": https://youtu.be/hWrFEU_605g

ornornor9 days ago

I’ve had an OLED tv from Panasonic that I used quite extensively for the last 3 years and there is absolutely no burn in whatsoever on it.

I was worried about it when I got it but loved how black the backs are so I bought it anyway.

No regrets. I remember a renowned panels review site doing extensive tests on each and it basically took them two years of full brightness always on torture to have burnin on the tv stations markee and around the presenters face. They really overdid it and so I decided it’s not a realistic risk for my usage.

april_229 days ago

Yes they have improved the panels so much the past couple of years. The blacks are just so amazing on OLEDs!

belter9 days ago

Do you use it with a computer?

nottorp9 days ago

How about a console? There's the menu screen with no moving pictures, and I have the habit of leaving games paused for extended periods while i get on with life. That worries me should i get an OLED.

+1
belter9 days ago
ge969 days ago

This is something I'd always thought about eg. "why not have both halves be screens". Now here it is. Will be interesting how it's like typing on a piece of glass, we do it on a phone. I'll try it one day but that'll be when they're not $2K each or whatever price. Which I don't buy brand new laptops or $1K phones to begin with so nothing against this in particular.

Although I imagine buying something like this used is probably not a good idea. (wear tear)

ajot8 days ago

What I wonder is: how a screen that's supposed to be put indistinctly "vertically" or "horizontally" refreshes the image?

I remember the Dragonbox Pyra having some trouble because the cellphone/portrait screens they could get didn't have a way to refresh normally when put in a handheld/landscape orientation, and the shim software they made to adapt for this caused a penalty in performance.

resoluteteeth9 days ago

Using a touch screen as a keyboard when it's folded in laptop mode just looks painful.

If the technical issues could be ironed out, folding phones would seem to make a lot of sense theoretically since it would be great a device that's small in your pocket but has more screen real estate when you're using, but this device doesn't seem like it would be that pleasant to use even if it worked perfectly.

skilled9 days ago

Now I am genuinely curious why I have the psychological impulse to immediately think to myself "disaster" whenever I see one of these folding screens. I guess I have Samsung to thank for that. And I doubt I am alone in this sentiment.

Good on Asus for making bold moves. I've got one of their laptops as my primary machine for the last couple of years and it has been as reliable as the best of them.

drcode8 days ago

My samsung fold3 screen is as good as new one year later, surprisingly.

nordsieck8 days ago

IMO, this isn't great.

It's competing with laptop + USB monitors that are optimized for portability. That setup is a little less elegant, but it's less expensive and it's composed of reliable components. And, you can easily use the stand-alone laptop in cramped quarters like on a bus/airplane.

The only real downside is, it's a little less compact compared to the Asus design.

Ekaros9 days ago

Actually seems pretty interesting one. Still, I guess the price is outside reasonable range like other foldable products at this point.

fstephany9 days ago

It's listed at 3700€ on Coolblue (online shop in The Netherlands).

https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/905010/asus-zenbook-17-fo...

londons_explore9 days ago

I don't feel like I can really comment on this till I've tried it. It's too different from other devices.

bee_rider9 days ago

Ah, I got one of their Flips around the beginning of the year, wish I'd waited as this looks really cool.

Wonder how the Linux support will be. The Flip has decent Linux hardware, as far as I can think of, every feature is working other than their useless numpad-on-trackpad thing (which I didn't even bother looking into).

noobermin9 days ago

I think the only thing about foldable screens is eventually the crease does not iron out and is part of the screen permanently, meaning likely you'll have to live with the crease eventually.

I've seen many Samsung foldable screens that are display units at the store, that crease is pretty worn out after a few months to a year.

falcor849 days ago

I'd be interested in official mean-time-to-crease stats. If it's indeed a year, I think it's still very worthwhile.

Also, would it be economic to replace the panel after it creases?

viraptor9 days ago

Another interesting point is - does the smartphone experience translate to the laptops. We usually open the phone tens of times a day. The laptop screen will get much less movement.

hombre_fatal9 days ago

Folding tech for phones wasn't quite as interesting, just a small cherry on top of something we already accommodate. Fine.

But folding tech for 17" screens is amazing because of how massive those screens are. They are completely unwieldy in the normal unfolding form factor, unlikely to fit in your backpack.

happyopossum8 days ago

> They are completely unwieldy in the normal unfolding form factor, unlikely to fit in your backpack.

50k 16" MacBook users at my company would disagree with you...

hombre_fatal1 day ago

I have a 16" MacBook too, but an extra inch of diagonal (and anything bigger than that) is surprisingly bigger and gets unwieldy fast.

I wouldn't be surprised if 16" is the biggest you can bring to market that hits enough trade-offs for people to buy it. Plenty of people think that's too big.

My point is it will be interesting to see if good folding tech, by changing the nature of these trade-offs, can open up the market for larger laptop screens.

iasay9 days ago

Expensive luxury land fill like all foldable displays currently are. This takes it to the extreme. I am not impressed. We should be building for sustainability at this stage of our existence and this is exactly the opposite of it.

Plus it runs the worst touch based operating system on the market.

tigrezno9 days ago

I suspect that if Apple released this, this site would be cheering for it.

iasay9 days ago

That's a terrible straw man. There is universal dislike for bad engineering. Butterfly keyboards and touch bar for example...

nottorp9 days ago

Yep. Fuck the butterfly keyboard and touch bar. But I'll still get an Apple laptop next time I get a new device because it's the least annoying when they don't let Ive run amok.

suction9 days ago

Only because Apple's track record so far is a lot better than Asus' or other OEMs in terms of not adding novelty or gadget-y features to their pro products.

theturtletalks9 days ago

Apple has mastered the second mover advantage. They let all the other companies blow money on R&D and educating users while they simply observe the pain points. Then, they swoop in a few years later and reap the benefits.

_ph_9 days ago

To be fair, they don't just "reap the benefits". They are working hard at improving new technology until it is really a product. They have many prototypes long before the first product, but don't end up selling those prototypes.

xgbi9 days ago

Did you forget the touchbar or the “low travel keys” that break after a few months?

I feel apple lost the edge on innovation on the desktop space a long time ago.

rowanG0779 days ago

What novelty features did Asus do? Apple did touchbar, the thinnest keyboard on earth, a super underpowered 12 inch MacBook, a screen with an iphone build in. And that is only the last few years.

+1
suction8 days ago
jimnotgym9 days ago

No, but they did take away lots of important features from their pro products purely for novelty. Things like ports, for instance.

suction9 days ago

Yep, and they added them back in and the current M1 MacBook Pros are their best yet.

thedrbrian8 days ago

Apple wouldn't release it though. They'd take one look at the massive crease in the middle of the screen and say "no".

monkey_monkey9 days ago

I suspect that says more about your own innate biases than it says about the users of this site.

snarfy9 days ago

It might be a small minority but there are still quite a few Apple apologists on this site. That's fandom for you. Tech is notorious for it.

suction9 days ago

I bet you've heard the saying "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king" . That's what Apple is. You can be a "fan" of the one-eyed man without believing everything he makes or says is awesome.

monkey_monkey9 days ago

I think most people are aware of fandoms and that some people will blindly support something, but that's very different from saying "this site would be cheering for it".

varispeed9 days ago

At least it would be more energy efficient...

drcode8 days ago

A device that allows me to get both a desktop-like experience as well as a notebook-like experience is more wasteful than having both a desktop and a laptop? (or a desktop dock with monitor and a laptop)

ekianjo9 days ago

it comes with a keyboard.

iasay9 days ago

I bought a keyboard for my iPad too. I'm not sure what your point is?

eklavya9 days ago

The point is that the iPadOS is not designed to be used with a keyboard but windows is. Having a touchscreen on this laptop is a useful/useless add on and not the primary feature.

+1
suction9 days ago
+2
iasay9 days ago
blocked_again9 days ago

Sustainability issues will never be fixed by companies building for sustainability.

Vast majority of the world population don't give a shit about sustainability.

Consumers always want to improve their life by spending as little money as possible.

This means companies are being pushed to build more efficient things.

For example Electric cars can travel much longer than traditional cars for the same cost of fuel.

More efficient means, less pollution.

Humans will fix sustainability issues automatically.

But it would never be by building products whose core service offering is sustainability.

piva009 days ago

> This means companies are being pushed to build more efficient things.

No, this means companies are being pushed to build the least expensive things, efficiency is just coincidental in some cases.

> Humans will fix sustainability issues automatically.

That depends, if you mean "eventually" I can somewhat agree with the argument but that's just a wishful thinking thought exercise. Eventually sustainability issues will be fixed because if not everyone will eventually die from the lack of resources, doesn't mean that the fixes are timely or with the least suffering that we as a species could be capable of.

blocked_again9 days ago

> No, this means companies are being pushed to build the least expensive things

Least expensive literally translate to more efficeny. To build cheaper things you need to spend less on electricity for manufacturing, less on transport (fuel), less on labor etc. Which means more efficeny.

> Eventually sustainability issues will be fixed because if not everyone will eventually die from the lack of resources, doesn't mean that the fixes are timely or with the least suffering that we as a species could be capable

Sure. But this also assumes we are on the verge of collapsing because of sustainability issues. We don't know that. This also assumes somehow if we start pushing on sustainability now we are going to overcome that. We don't know that.

+1
piva009 days ago
hyperpallium29 days ago

Folding, glasses or projection seem the only ways to smaller yet bigger.

On a folding phone, I found the hinge is noticable on a blank screen - but not when watching a video. Not sure how it will go with a terminal, but if a window doesn't cross the hinge, would it matter?

gabrielhidasy8 days ago

That's almost what I wanted from Lenovo with the X1 Fold, I already have space to carry around a 14" notebook, I gain nothing on a device that's half the size, but twice the screen on the same space, that would be awesome.

galaxyLogic8 days ago

Can I have two of these displays connected to a single "laptop" ?

childintime7 days ago

It seems they missed the opportunity to store the keyboard inside the clam shell.

That location would even allow the keyboard to be angled, quite the improvement.

mandeepj9 days ago

Great idea! A lot of people still WFH, I guess its adoption would take some time to take off, if that was not case. Of course, it all depends if the product itself takes on the positive trajectory.

drcode8 days ago

WFH people are exactly the people who need a desktop-like computer for 80% of the time, then a laptop for 20% of the time (when they have to swing by the office or want to work out of a coffee shop)

In other words, this device is the PERFECT device for WFH

zbird7 days ago

"Fully opened, the 17.3-inch touchscreen is perfect for presenting your big ideas, or simply kicking back to relax on the web."

Relax on the web? Oh boy...

659 days ago

Needless complexity, similar to folding phones no one found a use for. It makes for really great YouTube tech content but is mostly just a direct downgrade in everyday usability.

Kaibeezy9 days ago

No pricing yet. Guesses out there from $1599 to £2000 to $3999.

drcode8 days ago

It's already available for preorder in France at 3999 Euros

I'm guesstimating $2999 in the US

tdiff9 days ago

The next greatest innovation would be a self-cleaning display.

bradgranath8 days ago

Why do people want foldy screens so bad? I get that they fit in your pocket better, but reading or viewing images through the crease looks awful.

drcode8 days ago

I want something akin to a desktop with a big screen at home, but which I can also bring to a coffee shop. I don't want to have to fiddle with ugly docks, usb monitors, etc. Those things are a PITA.

nicbou8 days ago

Wouldn't it be better to just connect a normal laptop to a bigger screen?

drcode8 days ago

That's what I'm doing now, it's a pain in the ass

It means I can only get a big screen when I happen to be where my big screen is (even a different room in the house is a pain) and every time I connect Windows decides to reposition my apps differently, and 10% of the time I have to reboot because something janky happened to the screen connection

fleddr9 days ago

Admittedly, An interesting idea for the very mobile user.

As for mainstream usage, horrible in my view. A 12.5" laptop, who works on this? Ants? Even the "full fledged" desktop experience is 17". A size I considered too tiny for ergonomic work 2 decades ago. Windows in touch mode...meh.

Given that it's main value is in ultra mobile use, it's weird to flex all kinds of gimmicky features like audio. As if it's some kind of "creator" laptop, which it isn't.

It's typical of Asus, a showcase laptop throwing lots of stuff at the wall.

lxe9 days ago

Why isn't resolution front and center? Oh it's because it's "Up to 2.5K (2560 by 1920)", so still stuck in 2007.

risho9 days ago

dude thinkpads were being sold with LESS THAN 1080p screens all the way up through the mid 2010's. to this very day 1080p displays make up MORE THAN 50 percent of the steam hardware survey. resolutions that are higher than 1440p on that survey make up less than 10 percent. you are so wrong that it isn't even funny.

sovnade9 days ago

2560x1920 for a 17" screen is perfectly fine. It's about on par with modern macbooks.

happyopossum8 days ago

Err, a 16" MBP has a 3456x2234 screen. That's not on par.

fragmede8 days ago

The device looks gorgeous, but what's with the promo pics on that page looking like I've broken the screen on it?

parski9 days ago

Oh my god. A 4:3 OLED panel? My dreams coming true!

honkycat8 days ago

I actually kinda love this form factor. my laptop is a glorified desktop/monitor and removing the keyboard is a good idea.

quickaskq9 days ago

This reminds me… what ever happened to Microsoft’s Surface Neo? This is a very similar idea, especially with the external keyboard

Havoc8 days ago

Looks neat. I'm curious why its trending so high on hn though?

Out of the first 20ish comments a single one expresses a desire to get one

upupandup8 days ago

I guess the same reason I haven't bought anything from Amazon in the past 4 month. Fatigue and what I have serves a purpose.

I can't be the only one who cut back on spending.

Darmody9 days ago

I love the innovation but I don't see me buying something like this. I'd use it like a standard laptop and I think most people would do the same.

And then you have all the possible screen problems. We've seen it happening with phones and I wouldn't like paying a considerable sum of money for something that will break easily if I look at it the wrong way.

Gives us connectivity, good screen, power and autonomy. Leave the weird designs, they remind me of the mobile phone era before the iPhone.

taf29 days ago

at least according to all the Asus laptop fixes from https://northridgefix.com/ - these are probably pretty unreliable laptops... like probably a capacitor will fail causing a short that prevents the laptop from charging after less than a year...

taf29 days ago

here's a good example of an Asus laptop charging issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4_SzzorYn4

tluyben29 days ago

How does the 17 inch screen stand up? There are no pictures of it standing from the back. Maybe I overlooked it?

shimonabi9 days ago

It has a small picture-frame-like stand. You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us7rKu5SgUI

Tepix9 days ago

At 1:51 there seems to be "visual residue" from the unfolding. I wonder how long it takes to disappear.

CRConrad19 hours ago

> I wonder how long it takes to disappear.

If ever?

ngcc_hk9 days ago

Great idea. Not cheap I assume.

Like msft the desktop display model. If it also helped in mac … then cost not an issue.

anigbrowl8 days ago

Intriguing. Also their marketing is good, and I say that as someone who hates advertising.

fezfight9 days ago

I love how these companies advertise Windows 11 Pro as a feature. As if anyone would be surprised or excited for what is effectively the status quo. It'd be like being surprised or excited that it was black.

Its just kinda funny. Now if it was certified to run OSX, Linux, Beos, or Temple OS, or something, now THAT would be a selling point.

chmod7759 days ago

I found this sentence to be hilarious:

> The color-accurate 2.5K slim-bezel NanoEdge Dolby Vision screen is also PANTONE® Validated with TÜV Rheinland-certified low blue-light levels.

It's the second sentence on the page, prominently at the top. Do they expect the average consumer knows what any of that means?

There's more made up marketing BS there than English.

CRConrad18 hours ago

> There's more made up marketing BS there than English.

Just because you don't know what TÜV Rheinland is doesn't make it "marketing BS". Imagine, shock horror, not everything in the world that's relevant to a lot of people has to be in English.

ansgri9 days ago

Unfortunately this proprietary marketing-speak BS makes it easy to sell to creative professionals and those who care about color, and does signal somewhat well-defined properties.

DolbyVision works well if you have the proprietary stack (it's the format newer iPhones shoot HDR videos in -- and even DaVinci Resolve didn't support it last I checked), and PANTONE does reasonably solve the important problem of color matching.

ballenf9 days ago

They're counting on their target market to feel superior to others by knowing (or pretending to know) and thus being more likely purchase.

These statements also give purchasers psychological cover for spending an exorbitant amount. This is not some overpriced pedestrian device.

a-saleh9 days ago

This looks very simmilar to the thinkpad one. And I can't seem to find the price?

drcode8 days ago

It's sorta different in that the thinkpad one is portable even unfolded, but then becomes ultraportable when folded

This one is much bigger, making it completely unportable unfolded and only portable when folded.

a-saleh6 days ago

Aha, the keyboard made me thing they are simmilar size, but you are of course right!

nsonha8 days ago

the hardware is pointless when it runs on windows, a crap OS, I'm still waiting patiently for linux on mobile, let alone foldable linux

winrid8 days ago

Finally, I can feel like I'm in Westworld.

pantulis8 days ago

This should be great for reading sheet music!!

canbus9 days ago

What problem do folding screens actually solve?

alt2279 days ago

Wanting a bigger screen but not having enough space to transport or store it.

drcode8 days ago

desktop-like at home, notebook-like when at coffee shop

ccbccccbbcccbb9 days ago

The problem of service life being too long, which brings profits down.

some_bool9 days ago

My username says it all about this product

gwbas1c9 days ago

Where do I buy it?

drcode8 days ago

August 31st you'll be able to order online

arthurcolle8 days ago

How many truckloads of money is this?

drcode8 days ago

I'm a superfan of this device and follow all the news

It'll be "only" $2999 in the US if we're lucky

symlinkk8 days ago

Why do you like this device so much?

drcode8 days ago

I can have a giant monitor in any room of the house when I'm working from home

I can get a stealth giant monitor at the coffee shop without looking like a freak (by using laptop mode but placing keyboard in front of lower screen)

And I can have a single PC I use for everything, no juggling files, no messing with docks, no messing with USB monitors (that require random reboots because of connection issues, or cause Windows to randomly reposition my apps all the time)

asdfags9 days ago

meme tech

newaccount20219 days ago
j3th9n9 days ago

<insert but why meme>

ccbccccbbcccbb9 days ago

Planned obsolescence presented as a feature.

ccbccccbbcccbb9 days ago

Downvoters must have some skin in the game)

Dislike it or not, no material will endure getting bent 180° at a radius this small many times a day without developing some sort of visible artifacts, let alone with the layer of light-emitting components embedded in it.

RektBoy9 days ago

Who TF needs this? And how much is the repair?

shimonabi9 days ago

Form over functionality.

silon429 days ago

Give me a proper mechanical full-size-keys keyboard laptop instead (TKL please).

rgoulter9 days ago

My solution when traveling was to rest the keyboard on a bit of acrylic over the keyboard. https://www.instagram.com/p/CZRltWhpA6x/ (I didn't like the idea of resting an external keyboard on the laptop's keyboard directly).

bluescrn9 days ago

How many folds before it's e-waste?

I'm guessing that even the battery will outlive early-generation folding screens.

Tepix9 days ago

>30,000 alledgedly

bluescrn9 days ago

30k folds with forces applied optimally by a test rig, no clumsy humans involved?

jsheard9 days ago

The official numbers will be from an optimal test rig, but someone did do a more "realistic" folding screen test recently by flipping a Flip3 manually until it died.

Samsung rates it for 200,000 folds, and it lasted 418,500 folds before the hinge failed, with the screen actually still working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k86vsQEDKlg

galogon9 days ago

Apple Silicon killed Windows laptops. Why go back to loud fans and so much worse battery life?

quickthrower29 days ago

Loud fans? Not heard one of those for years on a Windows laptop.

suction9 days ago

As with most Asia-led "novelty" features on electronic devices, this looks like a "because we can" feature rather than a "because it's useful" feature.