Raspberry Pi Ltd is considering an IPO

349 points13
ein0p6 hours ago

It’s like $100 per board now once you add a power supply and a case. More if you also add storage. Cheapest Intel system on Amazon is $139. The whole point of the entire thing was its affordability. That was kind of lost along the way.

margalabargala6 hours ago

The lower-end, power-efficient market is being rapidly devoured by the ESP32. A $20 Pi will still use much more power than an ESP32 while also being less reliable and still 3x the price.

The RPi company looked into the future and saw microcontrollers eating the lower end of the market, which is why they are now chasing performance.

Unfortunately IMO they are not executing on this well. The RPi 5 requires 5V at 5 amps to run properly. It's now near-impossible to run via the 5V header pins, no existing power supplies can support it, and at 25W of power consumption the Intel systems you mention are now serious competition.

EDIT: actually it's worse than that. Here's a $99 Intel system that claims 6W power consumption:

Aside from GPIO headers it's hard to justify a Pi 5 over that on any grounds.

nsteel5 hours ago

They designed and built their own microcontroller. This chasing performance narrative doesn't make sense.

And let's be real, it doesn't have 25W power consumption. You can attach enough things to it to get to 25W if you try really hard but that's hardly the same thing. The latest cheapo Intel parts are contenders (at ~10W, where the pi 5 actually operates) and if you just want perf you're better off with that. But if you want a low-level connectivity, a rich community, docs, and tailor-made projects, you still want a pi.

margalabargala5 hours ago

Yes, they made a microcontroller to compete with the ESP32, but the ESP32 has orders of magnitude more market share and ecosystem. Not to diminish what they accomplished with the RP2040; it's an impressive chip.

But as for whether they're chasing performance, the RP2040 isn't their flagship product. The Pi 5 is.

And I've had a Pi 5, under heavy CPU (not peripheral) load, start throwing undervoltage warnings when using a 5V3A power supply from a Pi 4.

nsteel4 hours ago
IshKebab4 hours ago

The RP2040 isn't a very compelling microcontroller though. The only interesting thing about it is the programmable peripherals, but we've seen that before, e.g. from XMOS and in practice the protocols & peripherals you're going to use 99.9% of the time are completely standard - I2C, SPI, I2S, UART, counters/PWM, etc. For the rare case you need something custom and high speed there are really cheap FPGAs now.

The ESP32 supports all of those protocols and Wifi and Bluetooth, and it has low power sleep modes. And there are RISC-V versions which is quite nice from a a warm fuzzy point of view.

I think RPi still has a place for hobby electronics projects where you want GPIO. I don't think people are going to use it as a standard computer (desktop / media server / etc) though.

053 hours ago
actionfromafar4 hours ago

XMOS was around for a long time, but for whatever reason I never saw it used much. There are so many RP2040 projects floating around on github now, showcasing the programmable IO ports. That's very helpful if you want to tinker with something yourself.

snvzz1 hour ago
arnavpraneet4 hours ago

To pile on here, every Pi I have used (like a dozen at this point) worked fine for years, Pi 5 bricked itself randomly within 4 months of purchase with the complete accessory sets installed (coolers/case etc.) Left a bad taste to blow my savings as a student on the newest and greatest Pi to tinker around with, and it bricks, when the second hand heavily used 4s and 3Bs work fine with constant years of use.

writeslowly5 hours ago

The ESP32 seems like a very different product to me. The pi has megabytes/gigabytes of memory and can reasonably run linux. Were people really using them for the same things?

margalabargala4 hours ago

I've personally used Pis for things much better suited to microcontrollers, many many times, purely because I understood Linux and did not understand how to program microcontrollers.

Now, the tooling around ESP32s is so good that that's no longer a reason. I would never reach for a Pi over an ESP32 unless I need something an ESP cannot offer, like USB ports or compute or gigabytes of memory.

giobox44 minutes ago

> I've personally used Pis for things much better suited to microcontrollers, many many times, purely because I understood Linux and did not understand how to program microcontrollers.

This describes my trajectory over the last 10 years with the Pi perfectly too. I think a lot of people have jammed a small SBC like the Pi into what should be a micro-controller shaped problem hole, because it's comfortable and familiar.

It's just like hacking software at a dev day job, and it runs a Linux distro everyone is super comfortable with. It has GPIO you can learn how to call from any language you like, I already know ssh/systemd/apt etc etc. It will get the job done, albeit often less efficiently and reliably than a microcontroller, and I didn't have to spend a lot of time learning things.

I also think the huge success of ESP32 in the last few years has meant you don't see SBCs being used for what should be micro-controller problems as much in general anymore. Ten years ago, you regularly saw Pi 1/2 etc in this role in a lot of projects online. Speaking for myself, I avoided Arduino in the early years because I didn't want to step out of my lane etc.

freeone30005 hours ago

I think the Pi is for people who want to run Linux and also be able to direct-drive voltage pins. Cheap intel systems are way better at running linux, and esp32s are way better at driving the voltage pins, but the former doesn’t offer easy hardware-pin accessibility through python and the latter has you figuring out which filesystem library to compile into your binary.

margalabargala5 hours ago

> the latter has you figuring out which filesystem library to compile into your binary

For what many people are doing with them, ESPHome has simplified the process to programming an ESP32 to do what they want down to nearly nothing.

"Running Linux and being able to direct-drive voltage pins" is certainly still an existing market, but it is rapidly being encroached upon in both directions.

lll-o-lll4 hours ago

Yes! This is the space PI is still best for, in my opinion. The intel SBC achieve GPIO by adding a microcontroller to the board (as far as I know), but with PI you can drive those pins directly.

greggsy4 hours ago

The ESP32 is meeting the needs of people doing IOT things that they used to do on the Pi.

Why deploy a $25 Pi for a custom weather controller that uses ~2.5w, when a $5 ESP can can do the same thing on 25mW, and run off a battery?

ESP32 is obviously not a desktop or server platform. Personally, I don’t think Pi’s are either: flaky and fussy power requirements, and packages aren’t always cross compiled to arm64. I’ve wasted enough time compiling my own packages, and encountered my share of random issues that I’ll never use it as a server platform again.

golem143 hours ago
topspin1 hour ago

> Were people really using them for the same things?

No, generally not. Sure, there is overlap. The power requirements, processing elements, available peripherals, storage capacity, form factors and tool chains are all in very different classes, however.

cptskippy46 minutes ago

> Were people really using them for the same things?

Yes, I was talking to someone who was using a Raspberry Pi as a hot tub controller. Something a $1 ESP8266 could easily do.

bayindirh4 hours ago

That’s probably an N100. Its actual TDP is 15 watts, but it works reasonably well when capped at 6W.

They are good devices, but they are bigger than Pi and are whiny. Their fans never turns off and creates background noise. I have quite a few of them.

On the other hand, Pi’s 25W contains tons of overhead for other devices. A 5TB external hard drive still requires way more power than a 1 TB one or an SSD.

mianos3 hours ago

I have 2 n100 boxes and none of them have fans at all. Set at 9W and never had a problem so far.

bayindirh3 hours ago

Interesting. All models I have found had fans.

It’s easy to dissipate 9 watts with some clever design.

CMCDragonkai1 hour ago

What about the Nano Pi?

sitzkrieg3 hours ago

the rpi has had no power management controls forever. they dont care

mbesto6 hours ago

> The whole point of the entire thing was its affordability

No, not really. If it was just affordability you could buy a used ProLiant server for the same price on Facebook Marketplace and have 20x the computing power.

Raspi has been about the perfect balance of: power consumption, affordability, form factor, and computational capability all in one.

If you can manage your project with a unit that is roughly 2x the form factor, you can get the same power consumption (less?!) with an N100, at the same cost, but double the processing power:

mike_d5 hours ago

No, it was absolutely about affordability and education. Pi was never about compute power, it was focused on a general purpose CPU that ran Linux and had I/O that enabled tinkering.

They lost their way trying to cater to businesses that wanted Pis to drive digital signage or be the basis of some IoT deployment.

"The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a UK registered charity [...] We plan to develop, manufacture and distribute an ultra-low-cost computer, for use in teaching computer programming to children. We expect this computer to have many other applications both in the developed and the developing world."

dijit5 hours ago

This was also the appeal, despite using binary blobs and some incredibly unfortunate design decisions (ethernet over USB for example), people loved these little things because they were cheap to a fault- intended to be almost disposable for education purposes. All can be forgiven with cost saving as the goal.

That has definitely been lost; they are still excellent education devices, but at the pricepoint I would have a pit in my stomach buying a couple hundred for students… assuming I could even get them of course.

georgeecollins6 hours ago

I think the real differentiator is support. There is so much hardware and software support for Raspbery Pi. This is why I use them.

jimbobthrowawy5 hours ago

It's something like "the iphone" of SBCs at this point. Many others are using it and writing about it specifically, and it's pretty damn commodity. If you break one, another can (since the supply crunch) be sourced pretty quickly and easily and just dropped in where the old one was.

wolpoli2 hours ago

They committed to manufacture each Pi models for a number of years. This is important for those building a product around it.

genman5 hours ago

False. I was an early adopter and the price was the main point of RPi - there were also more powerful and expensive boards from different companies.

GuB-425 hours ago

Latest Raspberry Pis are expensive but also quite powerful. If you want a cheap single board computer that can run Linux, you have the Pi Zero ($15). You also have the Pico ($4), which is an alternative to the ESP32.

m4634 hours ago

They cost more than that on amazon.

LM3584 hours ago

I find this amazon obsession with people on the internet (I assume Americans) to be baffling and disturbing, it's always amazon this, prime that every time the concept of purchasing something online comes up.

Mouser has the Zero for 15$, 16$ if you want presoldered GPIO headers. 4$ for a Pico. RS Online has them for 4.25$. There are probably hundreds of vendors that offer them for the same price if you plop the term into your favorite search engine. Amazon is the last place I'd look, but then again I absolutely do not understand this mindset that online shopping == amazon that some people seem to have.

e: formatting

m4634 hours ago
madmask4 hours ago

It’s just convenience and trust. No need to input addressess or make another account plus good return policies.

xienze3 hours ago
1-63 hours ago

And overall size. I hope they build more smaller form factors like the Pico and the Zero. That's what differentiates them and the rest.

lannisterstark4 hours ago

You can get a SFFPC with 7th Gen i5 for like $40. Apart from low power cost and form factor (and I guess gpio), you would probably just get the SFFPC

chillingeffect5 hours ago

I thought the point of RPi s easy connectivity to spi, i2c, pwm, and gpio with a powerful(1) filesystem and network stack behind it. What easy way to give a NUC spi, i2c, pwm, and gpio?

(1) esp-idf is not in the same league as linux.

knowaveragejoe6 hours ago

On the other hand, a Pi zero is <$10. I remember them being $1 at Microcenter for a time.

Is the cheapest Intel system as power sipping as the Pi's?

ein0p6 hours ago

Pi is not particularly “power sipping” either. Not every usb brick is capable of powering today’s Pi’s, which indicates peak power draw of over 5W.

blipvert4 hours ago

Then why buy a Pi5 if you don’t have the juice?

I can get a 1GB Pi3 model B shipped to my door for £27 which will run off of any mobile phone charger from the last five years (heck, I just plug mine directly into the USB socket built into the wall outlet) and connect it to any TV from the last ten years with a £2 HDMI cable.

Cut your cloth.

int_19h5 hours ago

Compared to Intel it still is - a 5V/3A brick is sufficient for all Pis, with Intel if you have USB power it's usually higher-voltage USB-C.

pmlnr5 hours ago

No, they aren't. You need 5.1 or 5.2v, otherwise you get stability issues. Learnt that the hard way.

margalabargala6 hours ago

Here's a 6W, $99 intel system:

An $80 Pi 5 is 25W.

knowaveragejoe5 hours ago

I have a hard time believing that system only has 6W total power draw.

giobox28 minutes ago

You should have a much harder time believing a Pi 5 draws 25w in this comparison. 6w from a small form factor N4000 Intel system is perfectly achievable.

pmlnr5 hours ago

A friend did that with a ThinkPad x200 over a decade ago, so I can believe it easily.

TechDebtDevin6 hours ago

I don't think inflation is Rasberry Pi Ltds fault.

chrisjj6 hours ago

I don't think inflation is RPi's excuse either. It affects Intel too you know.

notanormalnerd12 hours ago

I think a better way would be to keep the foundation and spin off a company that manufactures all of that. Sell 49% of that company in an IPO and keep the majority stake in the foundation. This way they can raise money for expansion while keeping the mission in line.

This also signals very clear to investors what this enterprise is about.

gchadwick12 hours ago

This is already the setup, the foundation owns the trading company and it is the trading company going to IPO.

From a quick scan it's not clear to me what share of ownership of RPi ltd the foundation would retain post IPO other than the foundation will be selling at least some of its stake:

> The Offer would be comprised of new Shares to be issued by the Company and existing shares to be sold by certain existing shareholders, including the Raspberry Pi Foundation, Raspberry Pi's existing majority shareholder.

anticensor7 hours ago

Are non-profits allowed to own any stock in publicly traded companies in Britain?

gchadwick7 hours ago

According to this: yes.

Note that the foundation has had a majority stake in RPi ltd (as a private company) for a long time this is not a new structure.

londons_explore6 hours ago

Yes, but as shareholders they must still act according to their 'purpose', which is a term in UK law that a charity can choose when it is set up as part of its charter, and then every action must be in accordance with.

hgomersall4 hours ago

Non profits aren't generally charities.

szundi6 hours ago

Purpose of spinoff = get dividends to fund the original purpose

graemep7 hours ago

Yes. large non-profits can need to invest a lot of money.

Latty12 hours ago

Isn't this already how it works? Raspberry Pi Ltd is a different company to the Raspberry Pi Foundation.

syarb12 hours ago

AFAIK, yep. Jeff Geerling (hi jeff!) has a great video about this.

geerlingguy10 hours ago

Hello there ;)

I would like to know how much the Pi Foundation would still own—could be an interesting dynamic there. And good for them to be able to use some of that profit for good (they do a lot of neat things for education / STEM).

entropicdrifter7 hours ago

Hopefully the foundation still controls the majority of votes regardless of the % ownership stake. They do too much good in the world to go full-blown public corpo

torlok7 hours ago

What are the economics of buying into a stock that has a 51% stakeholder, and doesn't pay dividends, outside of "line goes up"?

I know this is kind of a standard in tech, but it still eludes me where the value of the stock is.

cchance7 hours ago

LOL you act like the entire market isn't "line goes up" regardless of 51% or not.

And no its not just tech

andrewla7 hours ago

Traditional answer is that there is future potential that they would issue more stock (to sacrifice their 51% stake) or at some point start to issue dividends.

vasco3 hours ago

Line goes up is the same as dividends. If you genuinely don't know, you can easily find the reason why it's economically the same, while being fiscally more efficient to not emit dividends by doing a quick googling.

dukeyukey6 hours ago

Raspberry Pi has paid out about $50 million in dividends already to it's parent company.

Jolter7 hours ago

Why would they not pay dividends?

szundi6 hours ago

I’m not really sure you get what the smell of money does to most people

michaelt10 hours ago

> I think a better way would be to keep the foundation and spin off a company that manufactures all of that. Sell 49% of that company in an IPO and keep the majority stake in the foundation. This way they can raise money for expansion while keeping the mission in line.

Ah yes, the OpenAI approach :)

lrvick4 hours ago

Do not do it!

The mission was always to produce quality low cost computers for hobbyists and kids with open source software.

The moment you IPO you will have shareholders demanding you put profit before people and the users will always lose in that deal.

taylorfinley2 hours ago

On top of that, IMO the vast majority of their value as a brand comes from the community that develops for and with the platform. See every review for the alternative SBC market (Orange Pi, Bana Pi, etc.) "Sure it's better/cheaper but they don't have the huge community..."

So, if they IPO, will they first be distributing equity to the community? Or are they just cash-grabbing a retirement play?

azinman211 hours ago

Makes me sad that they’ll now have to increase profits forever, instead of functioning on their mission and doing what’s right. This may mean moving manufacturing to China, using lower cost components, etc etc.

pxx8 hours ago

The first order bit of better outreach is a low price point, which they've completely lost the plot on.

If going public is what takes them to realize it, I'll cheer it on.

marginalia_nu10 hours ago

Yeah. I just don't see how they could possibly grow in a way that satisfies the stock market. The only way to create an appearance of such growth is to go Boeing and essentially burn down the house for warmth. For an organization like this, it's basically always step one on an irreversible death spiral.

bongodongobob8 hours ago

From my experience doing IT in industrial manufacturing, there is a ton of room for them to replace expensive PLCs where they aren't really needed. The company that makes the big fancy automated machines also make the simpler auxillary ones that supplement their main offerings. Since they know how to build with PLCs, that's what they use instead of sticking a Pi or some small form PC in it instead. Stuff like barcode readers on a manufacturing line or some simple piece of QA equipment at the end of the line measuring the height of a bottle or something. Adds thousands of dollars to the BoM but is complete overkill.

chrisjj6 hours ago

> From my experience doing IT in industrial manufacturing, there is a ton of room for them to replace expensive PLCs where they aren't really needed.

From my experience with PLCs, they are hardened and robust to the extreme degree required by the harsh environments in which they are used. Last time I looked, the R Pi was the complete opposite. It can be crashed by just a nearby camera flash, and then leave its SD card corrupt to boot. Fine for hobbyists (apparently). Not fine for industrial applications.

alangibson5 hours ago

Compute Modules are targeted squarely at industry. Environmental hardening is provided by the cabinet you install them in.

I built an RPi 4 based plasma cutter and I've never had a crash. You don't get more EM interference than that, short of putting it in a microwave.

bongodongobob5 hours ago

Right, I'm not suggesting they replace critical PLCs. They are overused in places where those requirements aren't necessary just because PLCs are what their engineers know.

marginalia_nu8 hours ago

There's strong diminishing returns in this sort of growth. With anything, you can optimize it until you can't. The market requires you to grow forever. How will Raspberry Pi Ltd still be growing in 50 years when the entire orchard of low hanging fruit is long since picked barren?

bongodongobob5 hours ago

I don't know, how does any other company do it?

mike_d5 hours ago

> From my experience doing IT in industrial manufacturing, there is a ton of room for them to replace expensive PLCs where they aren't really needed

Just for fun try to find a way to get a Pi mounted up to a DIN rail with an enclosure that can resist industrial vibration and has good particulate penetration/filtering and ruggedized connectors. Good luck finding accessories that aren't 3D printed with materials that will break down when coated in machine oil or in direct sunlight.

Now try to figure out how to get whatever monster you built installed in an ISO 9001 or AS 9100 shop.

bongodongobob4 hours ago
graphe10 hours ago

What is "right"? They haven't been a good value for over 2 years.

advisedwang10 hours ago

The goal hasn't ever been about producing a device cheaply. It's about supporting education, encouraging tinkering and changing attitudes [1]


raegis5 hours ago

"...hasn't ever been..." is not true. Someone above posted an earlier statement from the archive.

FredPret7 hours ago

Every altruistic thing is easier if you're trying to do it with a $10 product rather tham a $100 product, all else being equal

davidgnz3 hours ago

Good thing they still offer a $10 product then - the Raspberry Pi Zero.

ianburrell6 hours ago

Good value for what? They have never been good value as desktops because the early ones were too slow. Now there are better little computers.

But as hobby computer, they are still a good value. There are faster boards and cheaper boards, but which ones are good? More importantly, which ones will be supported in five years? How easy it to install software? I read about distro that promises support, but then have to check the list of hardware it supports.

I have six year old Pi 3. I can install latest 64-bit OS on it. For my plans, something small and low power is an advantage.

heavyset_go5 hours ago

Hardkernel has supported their ARM boards for 10+ years. The Odroid XU3/XU4 line, for example, was released a decade ago and still has active development from the manufacturer with recent kernels and images.

nsteel5 hours ago

I was really excited about those hardkernel boards 10 years until I got one and found I had to use their outdated custom version of Ubuntu and still half of it didn't work.

I assume things have gotten better since then but they don't have 10+ years of good support.

Aromasin12 hours ago

I'm pleased to see another British company actually stick to the London Stock Exchange. Many are starting to list themselves on the US stock market, Arm being at the top of my mind in terms of tech. I think I remember them losing 30 £100M+ companies to the US exchange last year including some big really big names. I know this phenomenon isn't isolated to the UK either. With all the issues in Hong Kong over the last few years, companies have fled there too.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the rationale. High interest rates, dwindling pension funds, executives wanting wages closer to US execs, fewer high-performing tech companies, Brexit isolation and a lack of committed domestic investors have all contributed to the LSE’s downward spiral.

It just seems everything in the business world is becoming more centralised around the US. I don't think that's good for anyone, including US folks. Monopolies do as monopolies do; extract all the wealth they can from the system. The only people who benefit in a scenario where 95%+ of stock trades go through the NYSE is the NYSE.

vasco11 hours ago

> Don't get me wrong, I understand the rationale. High interest rates, dwindling pension funds, executives wanting wages closer to US execs, fewer high-performing tech companies, Brexit isolation and a lack of committed domestic investors have all contributed to the LSE’s downward spiral.

Those might be factors but I'd wager the dominating factor to choosing to list in a US exchange is the monthly volume of ETF flow on the indexes you join. In the current world I think this factor dominates many others.

freeopinion9 hours ago

Could you or somebody else explain to the ignorant why that should matter to a corporation? If I want to buy or sale shares of my company once a month or less, why should it matter to me how many millions or billions of ETF flow through any particular index? How does that affect the equity of my company?

nemothekid8 hours ago

Key piece is "ETF flow on the indexes you join".

Any ETF that a company is a part of increases demand for the stock which will increase the share price.

freeopinion6 hours ago
curious_cat_1638 hours ago

Put another way: the US investors put a lot of net new capital every month.

Theoretically, more capital means, higher demand for equities and hence better prices for the stock. Of course, this does not apply to all equities equally.

Workaccount27 hours ago

ETF's generally have a buoying effect since the ETF just passively buys shares in your company depending on demand for the ETF, not demand for your company specifically. It also gives a mild proximity effect, where all star companies will attract dollars to ETFs that you are also part of.

logifail7 hours ago

> ETF just passively buys shares

FWIW: ETFs also passively sell, too.

We may all ignore that bit when stock markets just seem to keep on rising, but if (when) they start falling the ETFs will be following the crowd too.

wlll10 hours ago

Last I read ( companies seem to be undervalued on the LSE, it seems to be like if I ran a company I might be leaving money on the table listing there.

Agree that centralisation isn't ideal.

Aromasin9 hours ago

I'd argue that thinking solely in terms of potential investment opportunity isn't capturing the whole value of trading on your local country's stock exchange. It's more money and a larger investor pool today, but less choice and power over one's destiny tomorrow. These sorts of economic micro-decisions accumulate. Where to put a company HQ, what stock exchange to trade on, hiring locally or abroad, selling up to foreign equity funds. As individual business decisions, the leaders might think it's an insignificant drop in the pond and simply the most important thing is making revenue tick up, but there are consequences to that being your only metric of success. It's jumping ship while the rest of the crew is trying to plug holes and bail it out. You've successfully escaped the sinking ship but are now in deep, shark-infested waters.

Perhaps I've just been reading too much on geopolitical power dynamics lately, but as a British person, I fear our economy is suffering from a death-by-a-thousand-cuts from seemingly "insignificant" decisions that pass on tiny parts of our sovereignty to other countries. In the case of companies trading on other exchanges, we're leaving ourselves more open to the whims of the investors on that exchange whose priorities and sentiments don't match the spirit of the country of origin.

nashashmi9 hours ago

The wealthiest and most popular exchange brings in the most money. Exchanges realize this and try to sweeten the deal if their exchange is short on a few things. It is not all about money on the table.

lxgr11 hours ago

Trading becoming centralized in the US is a different thing from trading happening exclusively on the NYSE.

As far as I understand, we are so far away from that reality since Reg NMS that we are facing the opposite problems, if anything: A proliferation of markets that brokers are obliged to trade at in the interest of providing "the best price", the combination of which has created a giant industry of latency arbitrageurs.

robertlagrant12 hours ago

From memory at my previous company, that was on LSE AIM, the discussion around LSE wasn't about Brexit or anything like that, it was the amount of investment capital available in US exchanges. The US has definitely got something right with incentivising investment.

sangnoir9 hours ago

> The US has definitely got something right with incentivising investment.

Vacuuming retirement savings of tens of millions of workers and piping the funds directly to Wall Street? I think that captured investor-class who pony up billions but don't vote at AGMs has led to excesses that are negative to society as a whole.

wanderlust1237 hours ago

Brexit has had an impact on the amount of investment capital that would park itself in UK exchanges. Investors seeing dimmer prospects in the UK would rightly park their cash in the US

graemep6 hours ago

> I'm pleased to see another British company actually stick to the London Stock Exchange. Many are starting to list themselves on the US stock market, Arm being at the top of my mind in terms of tech.

London has never attracted tech companies. Even when I was in the field over 20 years ago the combined market cap of tech was tiny. Only smallish British companies IPOed on London.

ARM was small when it originally listed. Now it is large and was not British owned - why would they list in London.

> It just seems everything in the business world is becoming more centralised around the US.

Financial markets centralise for liquidity. IIRC some dual listed European companies are moving to London.

alephnerd6 hours ago

It's (slowly) changing.

Chinese companies are now considering LSE as an alternative to NYSE/NASDAQ for their dual-listing IPOs due to laxer oversight and auditing requirements, especially now that FCPA enforcement is in full swing and third party audits by Western organizations are required, which Chinese regulators are preventing.

That said, it's hard to beat the primacy of the American, Chinese, Singaporean, and increasingly Indian market (at least 2 late stage startups ik in the Bay Area are looking at listing on the NSE because they want to IPO but $100-200M in ARR and consistent growth is not enough to successfully list in the US anymore).

username33221111 hours ago

> Monopolies do as monopolies do; extract all the wealth they can from the system. The only people who benefit in a scenario where 95%+ of stock trades go through the NYSE is the NYSE.

What's the risk here? That if the NYSE establishes a monopoly, it could extract a 0.5% tax on every trade?

I feel the theoretical possibility of wealth being extracted from you is somewhat insignificant compared to the actual extractions you are subjected to in the UK.

sigwinch2811 hours ago

> What's the risk here?

A monopolistic stock exchange could, off the top of my head: increase fees, engage in rentseeking behaviour, impose unfair rules, discriminate (against companies and traders) or reduce the quality of service.

Listing on different (or multiple) exchanges ensures that they engage in proper competition.

> compared to the actual extractions you are subjected to in the UK

An apt example of why it's healthy to have competition. A working professional or business could relocate to a country where less of their wealth is taken from them.

FredPret7 hours ago

But your parent comment's point is that the harm from lack of competition among exchanges is a possible future thing, while the harm from being domiciled in a business-unfriendly jurisdiction is far greater and happens right now.

helsinkiandrew10 hours ago

> What's the risk here? That if the NYSE establishes a monopoly, it could extract a 0.5% tax on every trade?

Whilst shares may be listed on the NYSE, they don't have to trade there - there's a number of alternative exchanges/ECNs/books/pools/brokers that will happily buy and sell NYSE listed shares cheaper/quicker than NYSE.

olddustytrail7 hours ago

What if there was a large scale fraud on the exchange, and shares that were supposed to be owned by a person or fund were "owned" by several different people at once.

Or can someone provide a reason that's impossible?

Bearing in mind I've personally seen screwups with processing thousands of credit card transactions with a software update.

justin6612 hours ago

I'm sure those reasons are valid, but just the simple fact of the US stock market having much higher valuations than the UK market right now makes me wonder why they'd do an IPO in the UK. They'll get more money for the shares they sell in the US.

edh64912 hours ago

There's an excellent book just out about this and how the US has taken over the UK business world:

dukeyukey9 hours ago

I'm not sure what the real disadvantage is though. Like, as a British person I can easily buy shares in companies listed in the US. If a British company IPOs on the NYSE but keeps it's HQ and most employees in the UK, does that actually say anything about the UK economy, or just a bit about the LSE specifically and maybe some corporate law details?

rchaud7 hours ago

The stock would be denominated in another currency, and the amount of your capital gains would be affected by forex rates.

t0mas885 hours ago

Forex would have very little impact. If company earnings are in GBP and that increases relative to USD, the stock price would also increase (in USD) which should lead to roughly the same GBP returns either way.

dukeyukey6 hours ago

Definitely important, but it's more a consequence rather than an economic indicator.

CapeTheory10 hours ago

Dual class shares are part of the picture here. They are very common in the US, and allow founders to have their cake and eat it. UK regulators have historically frowned upon this, but that stance is beginning to soften.

alangibson5 hours ago

There is a lot of general flight to safety in the US, but I think the UK is a special case. The UKs economic decline is irreversible at this point. Crumbling (literally) infrastructure, completely isolated elites, out of the EU, inability to build basically anything. Why hang around to find out where the bottom is...

doublesocket12 hours ago

It hasn't gone well for several UK companies listing through SPACs on US exchanges recently. Think that's given plenty of reason for a rethink.

piltdownman11 hours ago

I can't think of a SPAC, regardless of nationality, that actually succeeded other than Cellebrite. SPACs in their current usage are basically vehicles to circumvent securities fraud and generate wild amounts of money based on hyperbolic slide-decks via PIPE and NAV offerings pre-DA - the amount of EV and Quadcopter plays that were obvious vaporware getting traction in 2020-2022 was insanity.

pavlov11 hours ago

I've been tracking SPACs as a curiosity. The only ones on my list that are above the $10 starting price are DraftKings, Hims & Hers Health, and Grindr.

In other words: gambling, erection medication, and gay hookups.

piltdownman10 hours ago
candyman9 hours ago

Off the top of my head out about DraftKings $DKNG and Vertiv Holdings $VRT. Huge successes there.

True that the majority have been major disappointments but you can find some good ones.

toast09 hours ago

I think of SPACs the same way I think of Regulation Crowdfunding [1]. If the company could have reasonably IPOd, they would have; if they're opting for a reduced process method, it's likely because they wouldn't look good in the traditional process, and it's best to avoid them.

OTOH, it's not like I'm investing in individual stocks anyway, I'm on team Boglehead, and everything is in index funds, other than equity based compensation which I don't have at the moment.


raverbashing12 hours ago

I'm not sure, but there are other ways of listing besides SPACs, like ADRs

manojlds8 hours ago

Hopefully the proposed British ISA will help make things better.

nashashmi9 hours ago

Does it matter any longer which exchange things are listed on? I can trade any stock on any exchange regardless of where it is. I guess only trading hours and holiday schedule would make a difference.

kjellsbells9 hours ago

At volume, the stamp tax on UK stock would be significant.

More fundamentally companies tend to be valued higher on the US exchanges, which gives companies a bit more freedom of action to raise capital from the market to fund their plans.

I don't think UK Gov will cry too much abount RPi. They certainly would be leaning hard on the board of, say, Shell, if that corporation decided to list abroad instead of London (as their former CEO has mooted).

patmorgan237 hours ago

Taxes and currency exchange factor in.

US has very strong and deep capital markets. There's a reason New York has been the financial capital of the world for the last 100 years and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

dheera8 hours ago

I just wish they would let Pi users in on pre-IPO shares like Reddit

nsteel10 hours ago

I would like to think it's also partly a message that this move isn't about profit seeking. British companies do not have legal duty to maximise their profit. NYSE investors might not appreciate this foreign idea.

shagie10 hours ago

Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc. -

> While it is certainly true that a central objective of for-profit corporations is to make money, modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not do so. For-profit corporations, with ownership approval, support a wide variety of charitable causes, and it is not at all uncommon for such corporations to further humanitarian and other altruistic objectives. Many examples come readily to mind. So long as its owners agree, a for-profit corporation may take costly pollution-control and energy-conservation measures that go beyond what the law requires. A for-profit corporation that operates facilities in other countries may exceed the requirements of local law regarding working conditions and benefits. If for-profit corporations may pursue such worthy objectives, there is no apparent reason why they may not further religious objectives as well.

There is no legal duty to maximize profit.

throw109203 hours ago

Thank you for your correction of the parent poster's falsehood.

klelatti9 hours ago

A peer comment has refuted that there is a duty like this in the US. For the record, it's not true in the UK [1]

In any event, any such duty would be likely to be meaningless. There are so many possible areas of confusion or inconsistency:

- Profit over what time period? - Profit vs shareholder return. - What level of risk is to be taken in generating this profit?

And so on.


nsteel7 hours ago

Sorry, I really should have said, there's no duty to maximise/provide a dividend. And I didn't provide a reference because I consideree it well known /fundamental (in the UK only, perhaps). I'm glad the supreme court allows "modern" corporate law in the US to offer the same sensible position. If I understand the reference, it was originally driven by companies with a religious aim, but extends beyond that.

shagie6 hours ago

US law has never required a maximization of profit. The court case that went up to the supreme court set that down in writing. It rejected a lower court's suggestion (,... )

> Responding to lower court judges' suggestion that the purpose of for-profit corporations "is simply to make money," the court said, "For-profit corporations, with ownership approval, support a wide variety of charitable causes, and it is not at all uncommon for such corporations to further humanitarian and other altruistic objectives.

The meme of "duty to maximize profit" has no grounding in fact beyond internet comments trying to excuse unscrupulous behavior of a company with the justification that it was maximizing profits.

There is a "maximize shareholder value" (which isn't profits) but this is also recognized to be fuzzy.

> Corporate law has long required directors to act in the best interests of the corporation and its shareholders. In practice, this duty sometimes translated into a mandate to maximize shareholder value—at all costs. But while some businesspeople may follow that practice, most recognize that promoting shareholder interests invariably entails protecting the interests of others, such as employees and customers. Corporate law accommodates this reality by giving directors wide latitude in exercising their business judgment. Rather than such an impractical mandate that directors maximize shareholder value, courts say they must act in the best interests of the corporation and its shareholders.

> The flexibility in this framework entices advocates of non-shareholder interests to argue that directors owe a duty not only to the corporation and its shareholders but also to its employees, customers, and other constituents or “stakeholders.” Although this is certainly not the law, stakeholder advocates urge a norm in which directors no longer prioritize shareholder value but feel an obligation to such other constituents as well. Yet if it would be impracticable for judges to enforce a rule of shareholder value maximization, it would be more difficult to formulate a workable legal rule requiring directors to optimize across such contending interests.

The maximization of shareholder value was from Dodge v. Ford Motor Co.

> This case is frequently cited as support for the idea that corporate law requires boards of directors to maximize shareholder wealth. However, one view is that this interpretation has not represented the law in most states for some time:

> Dodge is often misread or mistaught as setting a legal rule of shareholder wealth maximization. This was not and is not the law. Shareholder wealth maximization is a standard of conduct for officers and directors, not a legal mandate. The business judgment rule [which was also upheld in this decision] protects many decisions that deviate from this standard. This is one reading of Dodge. If this is all the case is about, however, it isn't that interesting. -- M. Todd Henderson

> However, others, while agreeing that the case did not invent the idea of shareholder wealth maximization, found that it was an accurate statement of the law, in that "corporate officers and directors have a duty to manage the corporation for the purpose of maximizing profits for the benefit of shareholders" is a default legal rule, and that the reason that "Dodge v. Ford is a rule that is hardly ever enforced by courts" is not that it represents bad case law, but because the business judgement rule means:

> The rule of wealth maximization for shareholders is virtually impossible to enforce as a practical matter. The rule is aspirational, except in odd cases. As long as corporate directors and CEOs claim to be maximizing profits for shareholders, they will be taken at their word, because it is impossible to refute these corporate officials' self-serving assertions about their motives. -- Jonathan Macey

hi-v-rocknroll1 hour ago

And will be bought by private equity and rode into the ground not long after.

theonealtair11 hours ago

Raspberry Pi did a lot to revolutionize the micro board/pc market, they truly had an amazing influence on the industry that I’m grateful for. Now a days they feel overpriced and underpowered, and their influence spurred a new market that has produced much better alternatives. This IPO just confirms this perspective for me. Thank you raspberry pi for what you did. But I doubt I’ll ever want to buy one again.

II2II10 hours ago

It depends upon how you look at it. Something like the Raspberry Pi is considerably more expensive. On the other hand, they started with a very low performance and weak feature set and have evolved into a product with good performance and a much richer feature set. Something like the Raspberry Pi Zero is much closer to the original Raspberry Pi, and its price is much closer to the original Raspberry Pi. Much of the price bloating features were a product of customer request. To be fair, they dropped many hints that it would increase the cost of the product.

From my understanding, support has also improved over the years. Raspberry Pi always had a bit of an edge in community support, but they also had a push to develop free resources for education markets and hobbyists. The former has been traditionally been a high-priced add-on. The latter has traditionally been provided by third parties (more reasonably priced, but still at extra cost). None of this has disappeared, though it does appear to be less prominent than in the past.

I think the big change is in the competition. SBCs were traditionally high cost poorly supported products or even higher cost well supported products (though you were unlikely to get support unless you were a business). Now we have a flood of low cost poorly supported products, albeit with slightly higher standards for support than in times past.

99990000099910 hours ago

You pay for the OS support. Alternative SBCs are much harder to get working and develop on.

pquki410 hours ago

I think they are referring to those mini PCs -- either new ones from Chinese brands with Intel N100 or "refurbished thin clients" from HP or Dell -- that cost ~$150 but are way more powerful than a raspi in terms of performance and capability.

Aurornis9 hours ago

> Intel N100 or "refurbished thin clients" from HP or Dell -- that cost ~$150 but are way more powerful than a raspi in terms of performance and capability.

Comparing a refurbished PC to an SBC is like comparing apples to oranges.

I think the only people who are disappointed are the ones who were buying the wrong tool for the job.

You get a Linux SBC if you need some combination of small size, low power, convenient access to peripherals (I2C, SPI, and so on) or other unique features.

If you really only need the most powerful computer you can get for your budget and you don't care about the SBC features, you probably shouldn't have been buying Raspberry Pis to begin with.

pquki451 minutes ago

You might think it's comparing apples to oranges but it's not. Go to forums and see what people do with raspberry pi. Lots of them use it as a Linux machine (Pi hole etc). You could say it's the wrong tool for the job, but that's what a lot of people do, in reality. And they are not wrong -- when raspi was $35 and the whole package is like $60 it made a lot of sense.

And actually many raspberry pis are sitting around doing nothing, because people realize that they aren't interested in the embedded side of it, but the "computer" side of it is too weak to do anything useful. In that sense it is even worse than a mini PC which has enogh power to do some "real" light computer work.

And I didn't make any of this up. These are real things that I see people talk about, all the time.

ianburrell6 hours ago

I think it will be a good thing to get rid of the people using Raspberry Pi as cheap desktops. It was always a compromise before cheap little computers were available. Now that they are, the Pi can go back to being hobby computer.

There are lots of projects that need a small cheap computer that doesn't really need display.

9999000009999 hours ago

I was thinking of competitors like the orange pi, which is basically a raspberry pi clone with worse support.

It's still works but I sent mine back with an about 3 days since I couldn't do all the things I could do on a raspberry pi.

megous2 hours ago

> You pay for the OS support.

No you don't. RPi5, zero upstream Linux support 7 months after release.

Zillion dollar (pound?) company, apparently, and they rely on some volunteers from SUSE for even basic upstreaming. If you're paying them for OS support, you're throwing out the money.

> Alternative SBCs are much harder to get working and develop on.

No they are not. If anything it was always RPi that was its own quirky thing.

Pretty much all of my SBCs are some form of mainline U-Boot booting mainline Linux (sometimes + a few patches) and a standard Linux userspace. Very uniform.

RPi 2+ I have is some weird bootloader that doesn't fit the wider SBC ecosystem, with its own special configuration, and a lot of RPi only tooling to control their firmware running on the graphics CPU or whatever.

azinman211 hours ago

What are the better alternatives? I don’t think any have anywhere near the level of software and community support nor stability.

jsheard11 hours ago

The situation with ARM hasn't changed much unless your budget stretches to Amperes stuff, but the big change is that x86 SBCs and mini-PCs have gotten very cheap, and of course those Just Work with any Linux distro or even Windows. The Intel N100 is incredibly capable for the price.

KaiserPro10 hours ago

> The Intel N100 is incredibly capable for the price.

Hard agree, I have one and I love it. Its currently doing the VM work of what a £10k server did in 2012.

But if I want GPIO, and or battery powered things with linux, then the pi is the way forward still.

Anything else, and a pico/esp32 will do well.

jsheard10 hours ago
tombert10 hours ago

Any reason you can't do GPIO with the ESP32? I've had pretty good luck with GPIO in NodeMCU.

Marsymars9 hours ago

The top-end Alder-Lake-N N305 is good too! Double the threads, and probably a bit worse performance-per-dollar.

varispeed10 hours ago

What kind of GPIO you need? If you need slow (under 1MHz) you can easily slap some USB to GPIO device and Bob's your uncle.

graphe10 hours ago
kllrnohj10 hours ago

Especially if you're willing to go used. 5 year old lenovo, dell, and hp mini PCs are all over ebay as companies dump them due to simply being out of the typical 5 year enterprise warranty. They are otherwise still very potent and capable machines

michaelt10 hours ago

> the big change is that x86 SBCs and mini-PCs have gotten very cheap

Yes - and at the same time, the RPi has gotten more expensive, rising from ~$25 circa 2013 to $60-$80 for the latest RPi 5. Neither price including power supply and SD card. Of course the RPi 5 has more cores, a faster clock speed, more RAM, and built-in wifi so you do get more for your money.

Once upon a time, you were looking at $25 for a Pi and $250 for intel. These days it's more like $80 vs $180.

ThatPlayer4 hours ago

The Raspberry Pi 4 is still good value at $35 . If your use case can be handled by a Pi 4, it's a good pick at that price range over the competitors. Most of the competitors are going to have similar i/o, but with a Rockchip RK3566 chip which is slower (unless you're using the NPU)

The Raspberry Pi Zero 2W is also very interesting for the size and $15 price tag. I also liked the 3A but no one remembers that one.

They're older, but everyone else is still playing catch-up, and Raspberry Pi will produce them for a while. I do hope they have a proper $35 board to upgrade to in the future.

dvdbloc9 hours ago
mixmastamyk9 hours ago

Don't forget the 20-40% inflation over the last decade.

tombert10 hours ago

Yeah, it's actually insane how much X86_64 stuff has dropped in price.

Yesterday I received two Ryzen 9 mini gaming computers [1], one to replace my old rack mount server and one to be a home theater PC. Each cost about $400, and they are capable of emulating the PS3 and Xbox 360 smoothly (I don't really have any new games so I wasn't able to push the limit too much, but still emulating those consoles requires some horsepower!).

Maybe I'm just out of the loop (very likely), but $400 for a super low-power gaming computer feels insanely cheap to me. The server one in particular will pay for itself in about a year due to power savings alone compared to my rack mount server.

[1] Beelink SER6's for those interested.

eloisant11 hours ago

The Raspberry Pi is the best if you can find it at MSRP, but I haven't seen that for many years now. You can only find it for at least double and at that price it's not worth it.

There are many alternatives that, granted, don't have a community as big as RPi, but are perfectly valid and can be found at a normal price.

wlll10 hours ago

I did a quick Google. The pi 5 4GB MSRP is $60 I think, there are some available on Amazon UK for £54.90 with delivery tomorrow. That's apparently $69.53, so above MSRP, but not terrible. There may be cheaper sources I've not googled hard.

KaiserPro10 hours ago

They are at msrp now for large parts of EMEA

radicality7 hours ago

rpi5 is at msrp of $80 for the 8gb version and widely available at that price in USA, just bought one few days ago.

haunter9 hours ago

Depends what do you want to do but I'd say Dell & Lenovo micro PCs. x86, changeable and upgradable CPU, RAM, and storage. And they are stil very very small I have severall Optiplex micros at home for selfhosting, playing around VMs etc and I love them.

In Europe you can get one with a 6th gen i5 CPU, 4GB RAM and SSD for ~100€. And of course you can upgrade the CPU for something better, add 32 GB RAM, bigger storage etc.

No GPIO pins though.

pokstad10 hours ago

Intel chips are becoming dirt cheap. Intel has a lot of cheap dev boards that are more robust than RPi. Maybe not the same level of community support. Recently I bought a refurbished Intel micro size desktop PC to replace my RPi home server.

Narishma7 hours ago

> Now a days they feel overpriced and underpowered

They've been underpowered since day 1. That hasn't stopped them being successful.

hilbert428 hours ago

I agree, and I would add that I think this IPO is the beginning of the end of what we were used to.

The company will end up the way many companies go after an IPO, the importance of product drops in relation to that of shareholder profit.

klysm8 hours ago

What are the much better alternatives? I’m not really aware of any

Pxtl10 hours ago

They've always felt overpriced to me imho - not intrinsically at the sticker-price level, but the workarounds needed to obtain constantly-out-of-stock units, get good-enough on/off functionality, good-enough power-supply, good-enough SD cards eliminated the savings of the device itself being cheap.

I actually appreciate that the Pi5 has finally solved the on/off problem, and would be willing to pay the premium price for that when I'm interested in buying a new SBC.

kllrnohj10 hours ago

I think the price has stealthily increased as the required dressings got more demanding. Like the initial pi could be powered by any random phone charger you had laying around. But the new ones are a lot more picky and demanding. The new one also really demands a cooling solution, which is yet another cost the old one didn't have without being an actual MSRP increase.

By the time you fully dress a pi now it's like $100-130. The pi itself is only like half the cost if that.

Pxtl10 hours ago

My first Pi was a 3 and even that one was picky as hell about its power supply.

chrisjj4 hours ago

> the Pi5 has finally solved the on/off problem

Please do tell.

politelemon12 hours ago

Does it feel like this was inevitable anyway? I had heard that the company was already focusing on OEMs and delivering their products to those companies first. Whereas in the early days the RPi company was positioning themselves as having an educational focus (and the hobbyists). I don't know how true this is, but is what I had read explaining the inability to get RPI4s and RPI5s over the past year.

It is quite sad though as they will now have an incentive to profit over 'provide', and it will be nice while it lasts.

mlyle12 hours ago

> but is what I had read explaining the inability to get RPI4s and RPI5s over the past year.

RPi5 never really had a shortage; there was the couple of months of "preorder" during launch.

During the post-COVID extended Raspberry pi shortage, a big percentage of production went to keeping OEMs happy to avoid screwing customers that had designed in RPi products.

chrisjj4 hours ago

> big percentage of production went to keeping OEMs happy to avoid screwing customers that had designed in RPi products.

To avoid screwing /a selected subset/ of customers that had designed in RPi products.

bmitc1 hour ago

It doesn't even matter to me. I stopped using them personally and have been pushing back against them professionally. They have bad performance, bad thermals, many limitations in the peripherals, are not reliable, and are impossible to get.

snvzz1 hour ago

And have a long history of hardware design mistakes.

On top of that, Eben Upton has publicly made statements showing pointless loyalty to ARM and ignorance on current/past developments in RISC-V.

For Raspberry Pi to stay relevant, many things would have to change.

jstanley12 hours ago

What's the warning at the start all about? Aren't they violating their own terms by serving it publicly on the internet?


Shrezzing12 hours ago

IPO announcements need to come from approved/authoritative organisations. This one is distributed by the UK's authoritative organisation - RNS news. In the other territories, IPO announcements also have to be made by authoritative organisations. RNS is approved in the UK, but not the other territories.

d1sxeyes12 hours ago

I don’t know if LSE are obligated to follow laws in those countries, but they may add this disclaimer to help others who may be obligated to follow those laws?

Also I’m not in any of the jurisdictions mentioned, potentially there’s some kind of geoblocking on the document?

hayley-patton11 hours ago

I can view it just fine in Australia. Now I'm going to download a car too before I get caught.

chrisjj4 hours ago

It is not a disclaimer. It is a prohibition and yes this distribution to US is a breach. But that's normal for LSE. Barmy.

vermden11 hours ago

This is a classic disclaimer put on top of all types of financial documents, you can see it all the time on IPO's, mergers, any type of corporate actions like repurchase offers, shareholders / bondholders meetings etc.

My understanding is that the source knows they have no way of controlling the dissemination of the document, and thus use such disclaimer to attempt to push the responsibility to any party receiving the doc - "ah! see our disclaimer? you should not have read this doc, its on you now!"

chrisjj4 hours ago

> My understanding is that the source knows they have no way of controlling the dissemination of the document

But they do. Geoblocking.

alephnerd12 hours ago

Read the next 2 paras. It's SOP for for listings in the UK under the FSMA.

smcleod1 hour ago

Same old story, the customer will shift from the people buying it to the shareholders. This would be a shame.

vsnf12 hours ago

I’ve tried so many times but I just can’t come up with any compelling use for a raspberry pi. It seems well suited for making a NAS or plex server, but other than that, idk. Everything else I want to experiment with is better served by an arduino.

gmiller1234569 hours ago

    I just can’t come up with any compelling use for a raspberry pi.
The practical purposes for an RPi have diminished. They're still good for when you need something small, light or low power. But the market for refurb mini-PCs really replaces most of the instances where you're just looking for a cheap, but semi-powerful, computer.

And things like the ESP-32 have reduced the Pi's practicality on the other end where you just need something powerful enough to read and transmit data from a sensor.

meatmanek9 hours ago

> And things like the ESP-32 have reduced the Pi's practicality on the other end where you just need something powerful enough to read and transmit data from a sensor.

Especially with ESPHome making it so easy to integrate with common sensors without writing code.

That said, the Pi Zero W is pretty cheap and small (similar in size to many ESP32 development boards) so it provides a nice upgrade path if you want to do more processing on device, exceed a few megabytes of ram, etc

moffkalast6 hours ago

And the Pi Foundation's refusal to do literally any power management while increasing TDP into the sky with marginal efficiency improvements has diminished its use for robotics and other battery powered applications too.

This has just been one of my largest pet peeves with the entire Pi lineup. The Pi 5 is the worst offender that idles at like 3 watts doing jack shit. That's an entire 3000mAh battery gone in under four hours that would've easily lasted several days on an average smartphone SOC with twice the memory and speed.

ssl-34 hours ago

That's valid.

My first reaction was "Well, the OS is open -- isn't it? Just set up good power management yourself and publish it for all to use, and it'll probably get accepted upstream eventually."

But then I remembered: The OS is open, but the hardware is not (because -- in one word -- Broadcom).

But maybe with an IPO, they can generate enough cash to get their own CPU started up. Maybe something based around [checks flip-chart] RISC-V or something, with enough documentation to allow people to fix the [checks excuse card] power management problem.

They've certainly shown some willingness to work in that direction with the RP2040.

moffkalast4 hours ago
ssl-311 hours ago

A Raspberry Pi a fairly tiny computer that can run a "real" OS, and that has a fair amount of GPIO that can be bought new somewhat-inexpensively. It has storage that is easily-removed and swapped (whether for good, or for bad).

If all a person needs or wants is a fairly tiny computer and it doesn't need to be new/shiny, then there's off-lease corpo boxes that are faster/better/cheaper.

If all a person needs or wants is some GPIO to hack on hardware with, and doesn't want a real OS on the back end of things, then maybe an Arduino or ESP32 or RP2040 or something might be better and cheaper.

But if a person needs or wants all of that in one box, then: A Raspberry Pi may well be the right approach. (Some folks like hacking with a real OS; this is fine. We used to use things like parallel ports for this in the PC space but those are long gone.)

Or: If a person needs or wants a well-tuned system that they can just download and use specialized images for and write to a MicroSD card, then: A Raspberry Pi can become desirable.


For instance: I use a Pi 4 to play movies with over SMB. I could do that a thousand or more different ways, but using LibreElec on a Pi 4 is the easiest way for me to get there -- just download it, stuff it into an SD card, and boot it up. It becomes an appliance, and this appliance is similar or identical to many other appliances; this makes supporting it easy. (And if I want to do something different with that hardware today, it takes only a few seconds to swap its storage for something completely different -- and swap it back later.)

Or: 3D printing. I can do what many others have done before me and sneaker-net gcode from the PC to the printer, or I can use a Raspberry Pi and a standardized Octoprint image to put that printer on the network instead. Now my printer is a network appliance.

snvzz55 minutes ago

>It seems well suited for making a NAS

No ECC memory, thus no.

jcronenberg10 hours ago

One thing arduinos don't do is things which require a GPU. So if you have a project which you want to output to a display but you also want it very low powered, because it e.g. runs 24/7, a PI is IMO the best device. Something like a Home Assistant dashboard display or a DIY smart mirror for example.

chrisjj4 hours ago

But neither requires a GPU.

zamadatix7 hours ago

There are a lot of suggestions here for things that can be done on any PC rather than a particular piece of hardware (DNS server, VM host, email server) so to throw out the one genuine "something the Raspberry Pi is compelling for, not just able to do too":

IP KVM as with the Pi KVM.

It utilizes the CSI interface for the capture without needing to do it through USB or expensive PCIe addon cards like a normal PC, the USB OTG is used to act as keyboard/mouse/disc drive/usb ethernet, the GPIO is used to control the motherboard power/reset pins, the serial pins are used to provide a console interface in case you need to reconfigure the static IP, some other pins are used to drive a small LCD display telling you the IP and status of the device, the Ethernet and Wi-Fi give connectivity options to access the local webpage where the hardware accelerated encode helps stream the data to you. The local uSD storage is plenty for storing the local ISO images and it's a full Arch Linux system in case you ever need to do anything else (like wget an image directly to the device remotely).

Not only is the hardware extremely well suited (capture, the IO pins, the decoder, the network interfaces, the minimal storage) to the exact use case but it's used in a way that doesn't really make sense to use an Arduino and would cost a lot more (in dollars, power, and space) to get a standard mini PC to do these things.

Of course I've owned 6 Raspberry Pi boards over the last 12 years and this is the only one I ever found to be worthwhile. The others were just for the novelty.

bityard10 hours ago

Sounds like a lack of imagination to me!

The official Raspberry Pi New page has a least a few featured projects every week:

The MagPi has articles and a whole monthly magazine on various projects and use cases:

kstrauser5 hours ago

I run a Mastodon server in a VPC. It's a Rails all and sucks up all the CPU and RAM you can throw at it. A while back when I was almost at my VPC's limits and didn't want to throw a bunch of money at it, I spun up Sidekiq worker VMs on my RPi. That freed up a lot of resources I could repurpose for frontend caching.

lode11 hours ago

I am running a hypervisor ( on my Raspberry Pi 4. Rock solid.

Currently running virtual machines: * Home Assistant ( - with USB passthrough of USB stick to read out my digital electricity/gas meters, Zigbee and Z-Wave * Homebridge (to allow my Eufy video doorbell to work with Homekit) * Pihole

All are running from iSCSI storage served by my Synology NAS.

I am running an older Pi (3) on demand in my garden as a client for my media server to play music on garden speakers.

zamadatix7 hours ago

Doesn't Synology support running VMs directly on the NAS itself?

nsbk11 hours ago
amatecha8 hours ago

Hilariously I've spent hours troubleshooting why my Pi running Pi-hole is intermittently inaccessible from my iPhone, despite being able to connect to the Pi from other machines. I still have no clue why. Last night I finally captured a tcpdump so maybe I can see what is happening (the Pi is indeed receiving packets from the iPhone), but it's totally inexplicable. The other Pi I have always hooked up (music player for my speakers) has a bash script that runs every 5 min with cron, to ping the LAN router and restart networking if it can't ping it. Why? Because after a while the Pi would randomly drop off the network and become inaccessible. Countless stuff online gives various troubleshooting which never made any difference, until I employed my hackish "check the network every 5min" which has completely "solved" the problem. Unfortunately this didn't "solve" the problem for the Pi running Pi-hole, sadly.

dotnet0012 hours ago

Similar issue, I have an old desktop as a server already to do all the heavy processing stuff. Only finally found use for RPi to be the brains of my 3d printers.

rocky11388 hours ago

I use an old 1st gen Pi Model B+ as a ppp server for my Tandy 1000 SX to connect to the Internet. I can telnet in and adjust stuff if needed. Very handy and fun to play Zork on through it.

markus_zhang11 hours ago

I think they are mostly for hobbyists and students so maybe being pragmatic is not the top concern.

pzo11 hours ago

I wish they could make a more user friendly rpi that is all in one: router, smart tv, adblock, vpn, private cloud, private media server, wireless charging pad, universal miracast/airplay/chromecast.

borbtactics11 hours ago

I use my 3B solely for adblocking via Pi-hole and it works fine most of the time

chrisjj4 hours ago

R Pi in a nutshell. Three sigma and proud of it! :)

k8sToGo12 hours ago

Not well suited for NAS at all. Too limited in IO and PCI lanes.

bigstrat200311 hours ago

Also not really suited for Plex, since the transcode performance would be awful.

StillBored9 hours ago

Right, the IO perf has been bad.

But IMHO, no one should be running a NAS without ECC at this point. It's on the "my RAID doesn't scrub the disks" level; it's just begging for silent disk corruption that propagates its way through backups and is impossible to fix with software solutions.

ta98811 hours ago

Depends so much what's on the NAS.

tetris1111 hours ago

Run an email server, send triggers on subject keywords, automate stuff.

sneak10 hours ago

home assistant and small/quiet/cheap remote syncthing nodes.

graphe10 hours ago

Absolutely correct. The form factor of a Pi zero (2) may be good in a handheld but you can easily get one from China or a PSP and get a great experience.

Arduino? You mean the ide or the actual hardware? It's been superceded by esp32.

LtWorf12 hours ago

I have home automation done with rpi.

They have a touch screen, speakers, and control the lights via gpio. I use the same thing to set timers, play the internet radio in the morning to wake me up, and put the lights off.

MarkusWandel9 hours ago

If I had a dollar for every time I've seen the words "Shareholder Value". Hopefully that particular disease can be kept away for a while.

incahoots9 hours ago

The disease of Enshittification ?

MarkusWandel9 hours ago

Whatever you call it, when you're beholden to the shareholders rather than your customers.

Karellen9 hours ago
contravariant2 hours ago

If companies that lower profits to benefit society as a whole are infringing on the freedom of their shareholders then any company that breaks the law to raise profits is basically just a criminal for hire. Ignorance is just irresponsible at that point.

And why should we let something that harms society remain legal? At the very least society ought to collect on the damages, and a company that's pushed all responsibility for deciding what is and isn't right to do onto the rest of society has no right to complain when society decides it ought to stop.

Of course there are people who want to abolish law in favour of bartering as well, but I think they think you're allowed to hit them in the face for thinking that.

MarkusWandel8 hours ago

Of course, perfect economics would assume maximizing long term shareholder value, which means not exploiting your customers. But "Shareholder Value" these days invariably means "short term share price" i.e. burn goodwill to make the shares spike in the next 5 years so they can be dumped profitably, and never mind what comes after.

nullify8812 hours ago

Arm listing in the US was apparently quite a blow to the London Stock Exchange. What kind of decisions drive a company to choose one exchange over another?

SilverBirch10 hours ago

The biggest reason is access to capital. There's lots of institutional investors who are going to primarily invest in US equities, so if you're on the US stock market that's good. Even if those institutional investors do look at worldwide equities they're going to be limited in how much they allocate to it. It's also easier for investors - a single regulatory environment, no currency risk etc.

This used to be mitigated by the fact that other countries would have their own pools of capital, like domestic pension funds but with the reforms to pensions UK pension funds are no longer a particularly good source of capital on the UK stock exchange.

dukeyukey9 hours ago

> with the reforms to pensions UK pension funds are no longer a particularly good source of capital on the UK stock exchange.

Surely it's the other way around? The UK pension system has been reforming recently to _encourage_ more equity holdings, especially of UK-based companies.

fidotron12 hours ago

Way back when Arm were dual listed one of the explanations was that US based customers (meaning US based semi companies) preferred that the company was listed in the US and subjected to a similar regime, in addition to needed capital.

To be honest, that actually makes a decent amount of sense, but I suspect the real reason was to enable US investors to buy into it so they do not then support attacking the foreign interloper in their industry.

kmlx11 hours ago

it is also incredibly costly and difficult to be listed in multiple stock exchanges.

spacebanana712 hours ago

Generally it's easier from a compliance perspective to list in the same jurisdiction as your shareholders live. Otherwise there can be more admin work with withholding taxes etc.

Also a baseline of liquidity, rule of law, and the absence of capital controls are prerequisite.

kmlx12 hours ago

more liquidity

ekianjo12 hours ago

the access to investment probably?

buildbuildbuild11 hours ago

I badly wish that chip manufacturers were required to produce single board computers with their outdated inventory. Or at least offer the chips for sale with documentation to reduce e-waste.

Apple’s A* and M* chips for example should all be on SBCs.

If you’re going to consume earth’s resources to produce these things, tell humanity how to repurpose them.

imhoguy10 hours ago

I would go even further - open specs and mass recycle billions of chips and boards of any obsolete mobile device (Samsung, Qualcomm, Apple....).

moffkalast9 hours ago

"Over my rotting corpse."

- Tim Cook, probably

revscat8 hours ago

Please no. They make good, beloved products that are fairly high quality.

throwaway59599 hours ago

Wild how far they are from their original stated goals. Maybe they were just full of it the whole time.

nottorp12 hours ago

Good time to talk about the rPi alternatives?

bayindirh12 hours ago

I don't think so. I actively use some of the Pi alternatives, and none of them are well-polished and stable as Raspberry Pis.

Also, an IPO doesn't mean that a company will go downhill from there. For example, when Bending Spoons got Evernote, everybody prepared for the worst, but it didn't happen, at least yet. They are genuinely trying to make it better from my understanding, at least for now.

I think the biggest thread to ARM SBC ecosystem is Intel's N series systems, which can run both Linux and Windows 11 equally well. An N95 runs a familiar chipset & ISA with familiar system dynamics and standard ports with good IO performance. They can act as good home servers and entry level home computers.

Who can deny the charm of a small box with a mSATA + NVMe port, WiFi6, a proper BIOS, two screen outs backed by an acceptable GPU?

onlyrealcuzzo12 hours ago

> I actively use some of the Pi alternatives, and none of them are well-polished and stable as Raspberry Pis.


Pis are obviously not perfect. You can definitely find much better "deals" - but overall it is a very good product for what you're paying for.

bayindirh12 hours ago

There are some killer features every Pi has:

1. Non-brickable: Either your SD Card is gone, or your board is broken. There's no middle.

2. Trusted OS: You can trust the OS from get go.

3. Customizable install with flasher: Spend 30 seconds setting up your Pi before installing it to the SD card. Doing the same setup post install takes hours in some cases.

4. Seamless migration: Poweroff Pi, get the card out, insert to newer Pi, power on, go on.

I'm not adding small yet irreplaceable features like undervoltage warning in the system logs.

I'm running a OrangePi 5B with their original Debian image. While it's not doing any shenanigans from what I see, it needs half a day to convert it from a toy with auto-login to a proper home server, and the OS is finicky. Some mounts fail during boot causing it to enter maintenance mode. Adding "nofail" to boot options makes mounts succeed on every boot.

Interesting device.

HankB9912 hours ago
pjmlp12 hours ago
chrisjj4 hours ago

> an IPO doesn't mean that a company will go downhill from there. For example, when Bending Spoons got Evernote

No that's not an example. Bending Spoons has not IPOed.

bayindirh3 hours ago

Let's change Evernote/Bending Spoons with ARM.

As of yesterday, ARM's architecture powers world's 4th fastest supercomputer Fugaku.

HankB9912 hours ago

> Good time to talk about the rPi alternatives?

I do not think this changes anything in that regard. As a hobbyist I keep an eye on the competition and during Covid none of the alternatives appealed to me. I'm sure others came to different conclusions and found alternatives suitable.

The situation may be different for someone producing a product based on Pi H/W. They were treated well compared to the hobbyist market during shortages and I don't care to argue one way or the other whether this was good overall. If I was producing a product that needed something like a Pi to work, I would always be evaluating alternatives.

Once the Pi organization is publicly owned, their behavior will determine the need to talk about alternatives.

nottorp10 hours ago

> Once the Pi organization is publicly owned, their behavior will determine the need to talk about alternatives.

And why do you think I ask, technical reasons?

I can very well imagine the post IPO "foundation" - btw how does a "foundation" IPO? - making Pis unusable for licensing / financial reasons.

haunter9 hours ago

Depends what do you want to do but I'd say Dell & Lenovo micro PCs. x86, changeable and upgradable CPU, RAM, and storage. And they are stil very very small I have severall Optiplex micros at home for selfhosting, playing around VMs etc and I love them.

In Europe you can get one with a 6th gen i5 CPU, 4GB RAM and SSD for ~100€. And of course you can upgrade the CPU for something better, add 32 GB RAM, bigger storage etc.

No GPIO pins though.

s_dev12 hours ago


gmiller1234569 hours ago

While the Arduino can replace a Pi in many projects I've seen, if you're reason for dropping th Pi is to avoid the issues corporations bring to the table, you're not going to be any happier with the Arduino.

whatevaa9 hours ago

Do you also compare sandals and shoes, claiming they have the same purpose? Sounds ridiculous? Well...

yau8edq12i11 hours ago

Completely different beast. Raspberry pis are full blown computers. Arduinos are microcontrollers with a little supporting circuitry. Even a pi zero beats a standard arduino out of the water.

ThrowawayTestr7 hours ago

How often do you need a full OS?

ssl-34 hours ago

Are you browsing HN with an Arduino?

ArtTimeInvestor9 hours ago

That would be cool. I would like to follow their journey. Their numbers, their earning calls etc.

I would like to see more smaller tech companies on the stock market. The giants like Microsoft and Google are way to hard to understand because they have so many products and so much stuff in the pipeline.

Are there any interesting examples of smaller tech companies which are publicly traded?

nicce7 hours ago

Not so sure.

Interesting opposite: Valve

Superior money milking machine without the pressure from shareholders, because they can focus into the benefits of the end users with few products and long term sustainability.

No need to rush for increased profits every quarter so that someone can sell or admire their stocks.

nsteel10 hours ago

There was a good interview with Eben Upton back in Feb on this topic (and others):

tombert12 hours ago

My visceral reaction to this was “well shit, RPi was supposed to be a non profit to lower the costs of computers, and now they’re going to be another boring computer company”, and that makes me sad. I know that Rapsberry Pi has been a dual for-profit and non-profit for quite awhile, so in theory nothing really changes, but it feels a bit weird.

However, it appears that unambiguously for-profit companies have managed to make affordable SBCs (e.g. Hardkernel, Nvidia), without having the same constraints of trying to save the world associated with it. Maybe Raspberry Pi IPOing will increase availability and funding?

Tough to say. I haven’t actually used a name-brand Raspberry Pi for awhile, and have opted for a competitor for the last several years.

rpmisms10 hours ago

Let's normalize private industry again.

dukeyukey9 hours ago

My pension contributions need to go somewhere, and without a flow of new companies going public it's just gonna bid up and up the price of the old guard.

boringg12 hours ago

That's dissapointing. I was hoping they'd be happy getting enough revenue to stay private. What do they need to raise capital for?

Etheryte12 hours ago

They haven't been able to keep up with global demand for what, half a decade now? That's a problem that you can easily throw money at and make it go away. This gap in supply and demand has led to many clones gaining popularity too, and while that's good for the end user because more choice, it's bad for their business.

jsheard11 hours ago

Supply hasn't really been an issue since the Pi5 launched, PiLocator shows that nearly every official vendor has both variants in stock right now.

moffkalast9 hours ago

The Pi Hut even ran 10% off deals a few weeks back, it's not something you do when demand is higher than supply. I think they seriously overestimated the amount of Pi 5s that would be sold.

glenstein11 hours ago

They don't have to agree that it's their job to change the fundamental mission of the business into one of being accountable to shareholders.

They can, of course, but it's by no means a forced choice.

tjoff11 hours ago

Sure they have, the pandemic was a huge, but temporary, issue.

Something more capital wouldn't necessarily have helped with either.

s1k3s12 hours ago

They can't keep up with demand so that's one problem that could be solved with money.

ActionHank12 hours ago

Man, I can't wait for there to be 7 variants of RPi 6 all with some nondescript name and none of which actually offer exactly what I need, because they had to flood and segment the market.

They should stay private and build on the quality brand they have rather than trying to grow because reasons.

Wowfunhappy12 hours ago

> I can't wait for there to be 7 variants of RPi 6 all with some nondescript name and none of which actually offer exactly what I need

So you think with fewer variants, one of those few is more likely to meet your needs? Doesn't having more variants make it more likely that one will suit you, or at least get closer?

al_borland9 hours ago

This is the paradox of choice. If there is 1 option, a person gets it and it's not perfect, but it's fine. They know what they're getting and make it work. If there are a bunch of variants there is a greater expectation that one of them will perfectly fit the need, and they are always left wondering if a different one would have been better, and are thus left feeling unsatisfied.

Some choice is good. Too much choice is problematic.

This TED talk probably explains it better.

noselasd11 hours ago

For me it always lead to confusion, indecision and not buying anything when there’s too many choices

regularfry9 hours ago

> So you think with fewer variants, one of those few is more likely to meet your needs?

Yes, because being over-specced doesn't matter if it's cheap enough.

s1k3s4 hours ago

I genuinely don't understand what this has to do with what I said. I understand this decision upsets you for some reason, but it has nothing to do with the discussion.

ActionHank4 hours ago
robertlagrant12 hours ago

If they can't keep up with demand people will go elsewhere. Focusing on brand and perception instead of fulfilling demand is not a fundamentally good strategy.

sircastor11 hours ago
Pxtl10 hours ago

Yes, I'm looking forwards to being able to choose from the Pi 6 Power, the Pi 6 Pure, the Pi 6 Play, and the Pi 6 5G, each product being actually a completely different product with completely different branding depending on which continent you're shopping in, and with the process being reshuffled annually.

sircastor11 hours ago

Have their production issues been a function of money? I assumed it was components (pandemic related) and maybe manufacturing capacity (because they manufacture locally instead of China, for instance)

giantg212 hours ago

If it's a problem to be solved with money, it's likely they could do so with higher prices or loans. Even if they raise money through stock, it will end up with higher prices to make returns for investors. Public companies have higher regulatory overhead and will be at the will of the investors to make more money.

M2Ys4U11 hours ago

That's what debt is for.

Pet_Ant11 hours ago

Another way to keep up with demand is to jack up prices until the demand meets the supply. That's what I fear. They have the brandname recognition to pull it off.

ta98811 hours ago

And their RP2040 was a huge success so they may want to go more into producing their own chips.

moffkalast9 hours ago

Now we just need a 5V version of it while everyone continues to produce parts that don't work with 3V signals nor level shifters. Looking at you WS2812 and analog sensors.

ta9883 hours ago

I doubt this will ever happen they may do 5v tolerant inputs but outputs? Highly unlikely. Already the RP2040 uses its own regulator to make 1.1V for itself. The smaller the process and higher the frequency the lower the voltage. So the future is clearly not moving toward 5v.

Kye6 hours ago

Hiring a proud surveillance cop to sell surveillance cop stuff to governments must have been a boon if they're considering an IPO. Zero consequences for being assholes to critics then lying about the criticism to the press.

deelowe12 hours ago

I called this back in 2012. Despite all their talk of being a non-profit and changing the world, it always felt this was more of a "feel good" thing than their actual mission.

robertlagrant11 hours ago

The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still a non profit, isn't it?

deelowe11 hours ago

This filing makes no mention of it and appears to state quite the opposite.

> Raspberry Pi has a strong track record of revenue growth and profitability. For the year ended 31 December 2023, revenues were $265.8 million, with gross profit of $66.0 million, and operating profit of $37.5 million, as well as adjusted EBITDA of $43.5 million.

The filing goes on to provide various forward looking statements regarding growth and profitability. I find no mention of the original mission.

MarkCole11 hours ago

The filing mentions the Foundation multiple times?

> Raspberry Pi is a subsidiary of the Raspberry Pi Foundation, a UK charity founded in 2008, with the goal of promoting interest in computer science among young people. Raspberry Pi has distributed approximately $50m in dividends to the Foundation since 2013, which has been used to advance its educational mission globally.

deelowe8 hours ago
MarcScott10 hours ago

I think you're confusing Trading with the Foundation. Go and have a look at the websites to educate yourself on the difference.

There's pleanty of information in the 'about' pages.

chrisjj4 hours ago

The R Pi commercial company dropped "Trading" years ago.

deelowe8 hours ago

I don't think so. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I distinctly recall when the Pi was first created, there was only one entity and it was non-profit.

chrisjj4 hours ago

Correct. There was a split. E Upton resigned and created a new commercial company which then confusingly changed its name to Raspberry Pi Ltd.

tdb789312 hours ago

Their "do no evil" phase lasted pretty long at least compared to places like OpenAI at least. At the end of the day are there any significant companies that managed to maintain a mission that wasn't "make tons of money for already rich people"?

jamesy0ung4 hours ago

Can you buy the shares in Australia?

muyuu7 hours ago

that would explain the focus on services like the VNC replacement they've released

those won't be free for long

rychco6 hours ago

Farewell Raspberry Pi.

What are some alternative boards with comparable specs?

rhadware4 hours ago


system259 minutes ago

IPO means company already gone shit. I will stick to ESP32.

andrewstuart6 hours ago

Intel N100 has sent raspberry pi to the drawer.

webdoodle11 hours ago

Hopefully this will give the average consumer the ability to give some direction as to the development of new versions. I'd very much like to see a new PI that doesn't have wifi, bluetooth or any other wireless technology.

Yeroc8 hours ago

I don't see any connection between going public and giving the average consumer more input into the direction of the company. Making a company public means the company is beholden to operating in a way that maximizes return to the shareholders. Sure an average consumer can buy shares in the company but the average consumer isn't going to be sitting on the board.

chrisjj4 hours ago

> Hopefully this will give the average consumer the ability to give some direction as to the development of new versions.

Will give the average investor the ability to give some direction as to the development of new versions.

azinman211 hours ago

Why? They had that with the zero… I’m guessing those sold a lot less.

gmiller1234569 hours ago

They have specifically limited consumer's ability to purchase the Zero's, so there's definately more demand for them than they're selling.

staringback11 hours ago

I can't remember the last time I actually used a Raspberry Pi. These days there are millions of cheaper, more powerful, "Raspberry Pi compatible" boards that are actually stocked. I don't see any reason to even need one of these in 2024.

pmontra9 hours ago

I also never looked at RPi 4s and 5s but for a different reason. Cheaper is good but I don't need "more powerful".

I'm using a 3B+ (or whatever) with a TV hat to convert free to air channels to IP streams that I can watch on my phone and tablet. The winning point is obviously the TV hat but also the low power consumption. It's 3.82 W right now.

I'm also using an Odroid as my home server, because there where no RPis available and because I can plug two SATA 3 disks in that machine. It's using 3.71 W. Given the load I put on it I could be OK with a less powerful server that would consume even less Watts.

szundi5 hours ago


adamjc12 hours ago

Let the enshittification begin

BizarreByte9 hours ago

This was my immediate thought, it's the beginning of the end.

Maybe I'm becoming bitter and cynical, but all I can see are things being ruined after IPOs and the like.

rvz11 hours ago

That prediction was just too easy [0], and it has now been finally admitted.

Time to them to dump their shares on the community.


Nux8 hours ago

How the enshittification begins..

rhadware5 hours ago


mig399 hours ago

Enshittification incoming.