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Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

240 points22 hourszdnet.com
cletus20 hours ago

Here's Apple's big problem: it's not a replacement for so many alternatives because it isn't supported on all platforms.

Safari? Not on Windows.

Apple Music? This actually has a Windows client. I'm not sure how good it is. But Spotify supports Windows and even Linux.

Apple Password Manager? Will this be tied to iCloud? Will I be able to use it on Android? If I no longer have an iPhone will it be a pain to maintain and use?

A dog cannot serve two masters. A company like Apple doesn't see any of these things as a product. They're a means to an end: to push the iPhone platform (and hardware sales). That priority will always trump the interests of a product like this.

It's also why I refuse to buy more into Google products: it's too much of a risk to lose access to everything if Google wakes up one day and decides to suspend your account with no recourse other than making enough of a stink on social media such that an employee will actually look into it.

People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login.

basisword19 hours ago

>> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login.

I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.

With password management specifically, Apple has had a Chrome extension available for a while now which has allowed me to use it on other browsers/platforms. Not ideal, but good enough for most.

On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords. You can easily import and export your passwords, just like you can with 1Password.

Apple Music has had a web client for a long time. iTunes has been on Windows for 20+ years and Apple Music was supported via that until recently when they built an Apple Music specific app.

itsoktocry3 hours ago

>I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.

This is what they think they want, until something happens and they are forced to move out of the walled garden, and have to replace everything.

But, admittedly, that's Apple's bread and butter, and they've managed to avoid big controversy so far...

redbell3 hours ago

> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.

I see many comments replying to the above statement, and I am no exception.. what about the saying that goes: "Don't put all your eggs in one basket"?

nordsieck2 hours ago

> what about the saying that goes: "Don't put all your eggs in one basket"?

I think it's a lot more important to decide who you want to trust.

The problem is that there are a lot of small apps that end up being scams. Or they end up selling their software to scammers. Or they just don't have the ability to properly secure their system (LastPass).

Apple has kind of made a name for themselves as a big company that cares about privacy and is serious about security. And they don't have the reputation for totally screwing over their customers randomly like Google.

I can see a lot of people making the pragmatic decision to just keep trusting Apple instead of figuring out which other company to trust as well.

lxgr19 hours ago

> On top of that, they don't lock you in with passwords.

Now that many sites are moving to passkeys or TOTPs, it would be great if Apple could not lock users in there as well.

> Apple has had a Chrome extension available for a while now which has allowed me to use it on other browsers/platforms

That's only on Windows and requires you to install iCloud tools locally, right?

genmon5 hours ago

Here's the iCloud Passwords extension for Chrome -- works on my Mac happily, and also with Arc (which means I now get to use it just as much as Safari)

https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/pejdijmoenmkgeppbfl...

hankman869 hours ago

What is the adoption for passkeys? I do not get the impression that they will replace passwords or “social” logins anytime soon.

+4
pmontra8 hours ago
5802864114 hours ago

The Chrome extension also works on macOS.

ocodo14 hours ago

> it would be great if Apple could not lock users in there as well.

The king of wishful thinking has entered the chat.

the_gipsy10 hours ago

> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login.

> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.

Until they don't, which always happens sooner than you would think.

evilduck19 hours ago

Besides the web client,

https://cider.sh exists and is in various distro package managers already too.

dxbednarczyk13 hours ago

...and is miles better than Apple's attempt at providing "support" for other platforms than their own.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK7 hours ago

Luckily, _most_ people don't buy overpriced and closed Apple devices.

nicce3 hours ago

Many could disagree about the pricing of MacBooks, for example.

M Pro series are probably the best laptops on the market, and if people keep buying them, is the price too much?

MacBook Air is actually quite well priced for what you get.

majke7 hours ago

> In the US, iPhone has a 58.81% market share

There are demographics where Apple has dominance.

MissTake6 hours ago

In the desktop world people tend to buy cheaper, yet equally as closed Windows machines.

+2
tsimionescu6 hours ago
commandersaki7 hours ago

Easily export passwords, I’m not so sure. I remember trying to script this once and for each item it would prompt a password to extract the entry. Maybe the Passwords app changes this.

delta_p_delta_x10 hours ago

> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.

I couldn't agree more. I use Google's password manager because (1) it syncs everything (2) I already use Chrome everywhere (3) I can't be arsed to set up another password manager that is generally inferior in terms of integration.

I don't care for the FOSS argument. I just want stuff to work and work easily.

Plus, I sincerely believe Google is 'too big to fail'. If somehow Google gets hacked and my plain text passwords all get leaked, it means something huge has happened and we're all massively screwed anyway. So, whatever.

jjav9 hours ago

> Plus, I sincerely believe Google is 'too big to fail'

Google might be too big to fail (I don't think so, but could be wrong).

The flip side of that is that google is too big to care. We all know from countless reports that they will evaporate your google account and everything ever associated with it, for no reason at all and zero chance of you ever being able to reach anyone to fix it.

I can't see why anyone would risk anything of value to such a platform that can destroy all your content at any second for no reason with no warning.

adhamsalama5 hours ago

Why not use Bitwarden?

It's better in every single way.

EGreg3 hours ago

> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.

Yes, and they should have it. As open source software that a free market of hosting companies can compete on price and quality for. Not as closed source software hosting by a Big Tech oligopoly.

You should be able to host your info on a server of your choice, encrypted end-to-end from your devices. That server is the one which should collect payments, manage subscriptions, do access control checks, and deliver data to others. That server is the one which should send notifications and push news updates to your devices as well as subscribers’ devices. You should always be able to migrate easily to another server, or use several at once, as fallbacks.

People have learned helplessness (“oh I wish Twitter would add feature X”, “oh, I guess we all have to get a Google Plus account”, “oh, sucks that Google Plus and all my data and social connections there are going away”) because open source developers didn’t stick around long enough to make something that is good enough to compete with it, and is decentralized and federated.

I can count on one hand: Mastodon. Bluesky.

I am working on fixing it: https://github.com/Qbix/Platform

Larger vision for 2025 and later: https://qbix.com/ecosystem

drio016 hours ago

Is there a way to export all your passwords on a Windows PC, or from iPhone? I do not have a mac

AnthonyMouse14 hours ago

A more important question is, is there a way to export all your passwords after you're locked out? One of the major risks here is you permanently lose access to your One Ring to Rule Them All account and thereby all of the others.

In theory you can export the data to some out-of-ecosystem backup device on a regular basis, but we all know that most people are not going to do that.

gumby14 hours ago

Why don’t you just install the windows app they announced?

AnthonyMouse14 hours ago

> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.

Like seven people replied to say this, but they're all missing the trick.

Most people want this because they're guided to want it. If you show people the convenience but not the risk, of course they want something with an advantage and no apparent disadvantage. But the disadvantage exists, it's just not immediately obvious.

Then some corporate machine learning algorithm decides that it's your day to have a bad year, or the screws only get tightened after you're already locked in, and the regret comes some time after the decision is made.

Whereas the nerds who can see the inside of the machine are aware that this sort of thing happens and their response is no thank you. A starkly different preference from the people paying the most attention is a troubling sign. It's the early stages of this:

https://xkcd.com/743/

The thing that gets me is that people then defend the practice because it's likely to be successful. Lots of unsophisticated people are going to put all their eggs in one basket and then have a bad time, which is a result we should be trying to prevent, not defend the people causing it because they're likely to turn a profit. Companies making money on information asymmetries and the misfortune of others is a flaw we should be looking for ways to optimize out.

jb19917 hours ago

> Most people want this because they're guided to want it. If you show people the convenience but not the risk

I think that what is convenient to you, or to fellow engineers, is not what is convenient to the mass public or non-technical people. Very simple solutions, which are often platform-specific, tend to be a lot easier in many cases -- not necessarily all cases, but when something is built-in to a device or OS, this does remove some burdens from users.

bandyaboot14 hours ago

I’m curious to know what you’re thinking as far as what bad outcome(s) will or may result from people choosing this over some other password manager.

+1
AnthonyMouse13 hours ago
+2
makeitdouble13 hours ago
hurril9 hours ago

Guided to want it. Sure. Everyone else, all those other folks with other lives, opinions and preferences, they are brain washed by my enemies. Come on, man :)

I just wanted Passwords to be its own app because the Settings applet(?) is obnoxious to interact with in some scenarios. My passwords are already all in there.

Now, I use a Windows laptop too and would love for Apple to make the Passwords thing work there too. It probably won't :)

zer0zzz13 hours ago

"The people want the thing that they want because they are wrong"

I never understood how this argument even makes sense. It sounds a whole lot like you're upset that most normal people don't care about and don't want what you want.

TeMPOraL9 hours ago

It's more of: people want things obviously bad for them because of abusive salesmanship techniques, which exploit information asymmetry and opportunity cost (i.e. that people can't be bothered to do deep research on every one of the thousands things they buy). This includes effective marketing, that is typically deceptive and stops short of direct lies (sometimes not even that).

talldayo11 hours ago

There are hundreds of examples throughout history of people being marketed something horribly harmful to themselves and defending their need for it even after being explicitly shown the downsides. Oftentimes, instead of fixing the individual people society chooses to punish the businesses that abuse this lever.

Same shit with the Microsoft Netscape trial, really. People didn't want alternatives because Microsoft went absurdly far out of their way to stop fair competition on their platform. Now we're seeing the same shtick, again, on a different platform.

+1
AnthonyMouse13 hours ago
kcplate13 hours ago

People are driven away from open standards to vendors like Apple because so much open stuff just sucks so goddamn bad. So will Apple one day fuck me over? Perhaps, but in the meantime their shit just works and I am going to use it because I don’t have time to spend hours troubleshooting why manufacturer A doesn’t work with free publisher B when free driver C is loaded.

+3
AnthonyMouse12 hours ago
dhosek12 hours ago

That was a bit part of my move to Mac from Windows back 24 years ago. It was such a pain trying to get all the bits and pieces working together and with the Mac, yes it was more expensive (although honestly, not that much more expensive) but stuff just worked out of the box and I didn’t have regular crashes. I’m sure things have improved in Wintel land since 2000–2001, but my Apple experience has been remarkably stress-free.

+1
pydry12 hours ago
015a10 hours ago

This point of view essentially reduces to the same place libertarians are at: Institutions are bad, Apple is bad, Google is bad, we should refuse to support institutions, or maybe even institutions should not exist, depending on how severe the FOSSism is.

And look, I don't feel that libertarians (or, let's kill the analogy, FOSSers) are always wrong. Of course they're right about some things; they're just wrong about so much more than they're right about, its like a 90/10 split, its not close. I think the cognitive dissonance is something similar to chesterton's fence: FOSSers don't respect the massive profit-motivated and closed-source companies and systems which, at best, make pockets of productive, awesome open source possible; but more realistically and worse those pockets are just the software version of "buy a Subaru because we donate money to cancer research", they're free labor/recruiting/tax writeoff/community goodwill campaigns by gigacorps, and its all just profit at the end of the day.

Nerds who can see the inside of the machine and are aware that this sort of thing happens is literally just stating in different terms the stereotype type-As assign to nerds: that they don't understand anything but the technology [1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNuu9CpdjIo

TeMPOraL9 hours ago

Apple and Google aren't institutions. They're for-profit corporations with a long track records of behaving like amoral artificial minds that they are. In this sense, corporations are beasts - society can benefit from putting them to work, but they will also occasionally maul someone because that's what they do.

4death412 hours ago

You should read this piece in the NYT titled “The Tyranny of Convenience” [1]. It asserts that your entire worldview is essentially flawed. En masse, people do what is most convenient, which is completely orthogonal to what is right / wrong / best / worst. For instance, it’s an empirical fact that eating healthy and getting exercise is better than eating poorly and living a sedentary life. Yet, most people live sedentary lives.

1: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/opinion/sunday/tyranny-co...

+2
AnthonyMouse12 hours ago
jajko8 hours ago

> I think this is exactly what _most_ people want.

No. Please stop being speaker for most of the whole world.

There are people, including me or my wife who is not technical at all, who will never use anything similar from Apple. Or any similar SSO/access/security platform. Google and FB tried that decade+ ago, only fools fell for that regretful trap if the service has actually any long term added value.

jb19917 hours ago

It's ironic that you suggest they should not speak for the whole world, and then use your own personal opinion as a stand-in for what you think should be the whole world's opinion.

vegabook8 hours ago

He did say ‘I think’ so not speaking for the whole world

WheatMillington19 hours ago

>People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login.

This is EXACTLY what people want. Please remember that HN is not a cross section of the general public.

ChrisMarshallNY15 hours ago

> Please remember that HN is not a cross section of the general public.

Yup. I need to constantly keep that in mind, when I’m designing my software.

Very often, the fact that I like it, is a negative.

ascagnel_12 hours ago

What this forum needs is for its members to volunteer their time at their local library doing tech support. It’d be a rude awakening for a lot of folks.

+1
appplication12 hours ago
satvikpendem14 hours ago

> Very often, the fact that I like it, is a negative.

Incredible insight. Too often I'm building something and it rises in complexity precisely due to me wanting extra features that might be very niche and technical in nature, so I too must remember to not bloat the product and make it much more streamlined.

kcplate13 hours ago

SWEs build for maximum tinkerability. General users just want the software to work without having to tinker with it at all.

wtetzner14 hours ago

I think they want one login, but don't want it all controlled by one company. I think they either like or just don't notice that everything they do is controlled by one company at first, until they see something shiny and cool that another company is doing, and realize how difficult it is to switch.

sunshinerag13 hours ago

What would they prefer instead? controlled by another company? controlled by many companies? manage it on their own?

exodust10 hours ago

> This is EXACTLY what people want.

You made the same mistake as the person you're refuting, only worse because you added "exactly" as if case closed.

Here's another take: "People" want different things. They listen to different music, have different opinions, buy different cars, have different tolerances of when a car needs washing.

My non-technical Mum refuses to use online banking; my non-technical Dad loves online banking. My non-techie sister loves issuing verbal commands to her smart speaker; my non-techie Mum refuses to speak to devices & switches her TV off at the wall every night.

The only "EXACTLY" is in marketing efforts trying to convince you of that state.

motoxpro5 hours ago

You could fix iy by saying "this is exactly what > 90% of people want"

AnonC8 hours ago

> Here's Apple's big problem: it's not a replacement for so many alternatives because it isn't supported on all platforms.

No, it's not Apple's problem, let alone be a big problem. Apple does not like to provide services for free on other platforms and isn't even very good at doing it for paid services. This passwords app is meant for those who use and depend on Apple's ecosystem, not as a generic competition for other password managers.

coldtea4 hours ago

>People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login.

You'd be surprised. People want a neat solution so they don't have to deal with multiple nuissances.

They worry less about vendor lock-in (if they even understand the issue unless it's bitten them, and then they can consider the costs of switching as totally normal and expected, similar to how they just go find app replacements for platform-exclusive software).

Someone20 hours ago

> Here's Apple's big problem: it's not a replacement for so many alternatives because it isn't supported on all platforms.

I don’t see why that would be a big problem for Apple.

As this article explains, this isn’t new functionality. It’s (mostly) a new UI for existing functionality, to make the hardware they sell and make lots of money on more attractive.

quitit19 hours ago

Seems to be the case that commenters do not know that Keychain Access exists.

Apple has tried various approaches of surfacing this functionality (eg the passwords panel in Safari and again in iOS’s settings app). This just seems to be the app-agnostic way of providing this functionality to everyday users, and probably a good thing as platforms move away from passwords.

llamaimperative19 hours ago

No, Keychain Access is just a terrible app. It is sufficiently terrible that I'm 100% aware of its existence and instead choose to pay for a less OS-integrated, but far better app.

quitit18 hours ago

> No, bla bla irrelevant comment.

No, the commenters I'm referring to are ones that think Apple including a password manager is anticompetitive lock in, and other similar comments that are clearly unaware that this is not new functionality.

Your comment has zero bearing on what I posted. Apple themselves use 1PW

StressedDev14 hours ago

I am not sure what you mean by it’s “terrible”. It works well for me. It saves my passwords, generates secure passwords for me, works with Safari, and works with apps.

snapcaster3 hours ago

I do, because i don't have any windows or android machines

efitz8 hours ago

The other big problem is that in the case that you get on Apple’s bad side for whatever reason, you now lose your passwords to everything.

pityJuke7 hours ago

Terrifies me. I can't really piss 1Password off, so that'll never be a worry. My iCloud Email can at least be re-directed to Fastmail as I own the domain (other than Hide My Email, which is a shame).

madeofpalk7 hours ago

You can't piss 1Password off, until you do. There's nothing inherit about Agile Bits that shields them from arbitary account closure.

You can't piss Apple off, until you do.

I personally haven't heard of people's account getting randomly shut down for whatever reason for either company, but I'm sure it happens.

+1
pityJuke5 hours ago
crossroadsguy5 hours ago

There is a difference - the surface area where you interact with that certain company. As an Apple device owner, your interaction with Apple and it's various services (known; and unknown to you - e.g. watching a certain video on YouTube in Safari) compared to that of Agile Bits (or BitWarden for that matter, which I prefer), where the service is exactly one, is much much bigger. Hence making your chance to trip so much more in case of Apple and Google.

mirzap10 hours ago

How many people use Mac and Windows at the same time? There are some, but I bet most people do not use multiple OS. Usually, people who have a Mac have an iPhone and maybe an iPad. They are entirely in the Apple ecosystem because they see all the benefits when all those devices work seamlessly together.

eps10 hours ago

Quite a few. Windows desktop/laptop + an iPhone/iPad is a super common combo.

MrDrMcCoy13 hours ago

> It's also why I refuse to buy more into Google products: it's too much of a risk to lose access to everything if Google wakes up one day and decides to suspend your account

There's a difference between Google's products and Google's services. You can use either one without the other. I am a happy user of Google hardware, and am even happier to be almost entirely extricated from their services.

cuu50810 hours ago

Do you mean stuff like Pixel but with a degoogled version of Android?

sgarland15 hours ago

> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login.

This is what OAuth attempts to do, and most users and devs I know like it.

I'm well aware of the risks of putting all eggs into one basket. I'm already doing it with 1Pass (albeit with external MFA for some sites), so I see no difference with letting Apple manage it.

tyingq14 hours ago

> This is what OAuth attempts to do, and most users and devs I know like it.

Counterpoint from an interesting source:

https://gist.github.com/nckroy/dd2d4dfc86f7d13045ad715377b6a...

gumby14 hours ago

They have a windows app for it.

yreg13 hours ago

Windows app will certainly help adoption.

An Android app would be nice as well, but I doubt that many people use both iOS and Android devices[1] (or concern themselves whether they will be able to switch platforms easily).

[1] Android devices as in devices where password manager is desired, not as in 3 Billion Devices Run Java

dhosek12 hours ago

I wonder what the number of people who use Macs and Android is. I would guess that it’s a tiny fraction of the marketplace (and likely entirely populated by people with Kindle Fires, not Android phones).

yreg2 hours ago

Actually now I'm thinking that there are probably quite a few developers with Macs + Android phones.

fckgw20 hours ago

Apple already has an iCloud app for Windows and has had an iCloud Password Chrome extension for years. There is no support for Android.

lxgr19 hours ago

> has had an iCloud Password Chrome extension for years

Which is also only available for Windows, as far as I know.

filmgirlcw14 hours ago

It’s also available on macOS.

nashashmi14 hours ago

And needs iCloud installed for it to work.

gumby14 hours ago

They aren’t preventing you from using 1password which requires their cloud service, or any other. I use third party calendar, address book (contacts), text editor, but use Apple mail and safari. And mostly use Dropbox for file storage.

Other people can make different choices. This doesn’t seem like a crisis.

MrDarcy19 hours ago

I use Apple Music and Apple Notes every day on my Debian workstation. Works like a charm.

zer0zzz13 hours ago

Word. I do the same. The web versions aren't perfect but they do the job. There are way too many Android-only users in these comments that don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Scarbutt13 hours ago

Notes web version is pretty limited though, ex: can't attached images.

zer0zzz13 hours ago

I use Notion in cases where it's too limited. Unfortunately notion charges for really large attachments.

Trick I do do sometimes is, just WhatsApp the files to myself and attach them from my phone

ttul20 hours ago

If they haven’t already, I won’t be surprised if Apple creates a reasonable password app for Android and Windows specifically to address this concern. Fanning out to other platforms to enable customers to continue using Apple products is a decent strategy that probably does more to retain people within the Apple ecosystem than it does to enable a move away from Apple.

jurmous19 hours ago

Apple already has a Windows iCloud password app and a Chrome extension https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud-windows/manage-passwo...

johnnyApplePRNG12 hours ago

Someday I hope a company might emerge that develops things for the sake of developing things to enhance their popularity.

Ferret744612 hours ago

That's contradictory; what you're looking for is a charity.

A company does things for the sake of profit.

johnnyApplePRNG9 hours ago

It can be profitable to be innovative in my opinion.

superb_dev20 hours ago

Apple Music has a decent web player, so it's technically supported on Linux

zer0zzz13 hours ago

> People don't want everything tied to one identity, one service, one login.

People literally want everything tied to one identity, service, and login. You are almost totally wrong. People do sometimes want to switch to something new when they feel what they've bought into hasn't met their expectations or has fallen behind in innovation. And guess what? Apple in very limited ways actually locks people into things like passwords, files, photos, notes etc. Their entire ecosystem is pretty easy to migrate away from, I've done it several times. Theres an import/export tool for most everything.

After this year you probably can't even say they are locking people into their ecosystem with iMessage.

thisarticle20 hours ago

They’re releasing an app for Windows that will solve that piece at least. It’ll sync across both.

cletus18 hours ago

In the same way I don't trust Google not to cancel whatever it is they just announced, I don't trust apple to keep supporting software on platforms that aren't theirs. They just don't have a good track record and no real incentives. The last widespread Apple sosftware on non-Apple platforms was probably iTunes, which was terrible.

shiroiushi7 hours ago

I do trust Google not to cancel one of their core (or most popular) products, like search, Maps, Docs, Android, etc. Anything else I don't. I do use Google Photos, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see them shut it down one day.

cjk210 hours ago

To be fair it was terrible on macOS as well.

chx14 hours ago

It's good that it's not cross platform, we do not need any more product monopolies, we have enough. Still there's a chance this will hurt the password manager market which leads to an even better outcome: we still have a monopoly but it doesn't make the product available on platforms most people use.

swiftcoder10 hours ago

> Apple Music? This actually has a Windows client. I'm not sure how good it is

It is absolute garbage, but luckily the legacy integration in iTunes for windows still (sort of) works.

zitterbewegung19 hours ago

Apple wants it to be a problem so it incentivizes you to switch over.

ariuser843417 hours ago

But Apple knows that there are many reasons why a user who may choose Apple where they make decisions for their dollars, is also a user who is stuck in other ecosystems in other context.

Of course, I'm talking about, for example, work environments where you may be stuck with a Windows PC, or have to use a corporate-owned Android device for your phone...

Izikiel4319 hours ago

[flagged]

BenFranklin10018 hours ago

>> Oh sweet summer child

I only ever see this expression on nerd sites.

jpalawaga14 hours ago

probably because it's was boosted to popularity by game of thrones, a nerd tv show.

shmerl14 hours ago

Apple thinks "One Ring to rule them all" will work on mindless enough. But otherwise, yeah. Those who aren't mindless wouldn't want that.

citizen_friend3 hours ago

People always ignore the simpler explanation: it’s more time and work to make something a second time on a platform you don’t know and control.

tootie19 hours ago

It's more platform lock-in and it leverages their market position. Unabashed monopolism. Completely unchastened by recent lawsuits.

kstrauser19 hours ago

Except for the fact that you can import from and export to other password managers using built-in functions. That kind of kills the whole lock-in vibe.

WheatMillington19 hours ago

Literally not a monopoly.

Justsignedup19 hours ago

Sadly this will take off, and be tied to everything apple. From a tech perspective I would never use their tools even if they are the most convenient. But the reality is most people will see this as the only option for password management, and 1password isn't free, so for them they will see no better way out.

cletus18 hours ago

I would be happy if more people adopted password managers. We'd all be a lot better off if they did. And personally I don't care which tool they use to get there. But there's still too much friction in using a password manager, not all of which is the fault of the password manager (eg different password requirements, how 2FA verification is handled, the antiquated notion of password expiry, some sites split username and password onto two pages so you have to verify twice, some sites using a third field you have to fill in like surname).

So I'm not sure how many people will actually use this just because of this friction.

Branding a solution as Apple isn't a guarantee of success. If it were, we'd still have Safari for Windows.

m_a_g20 hours ago

I wasn’t expecting this much hate towards 1Password in the comments. I was using Google Passwords, then migrated to Apple, finally to 1P7 and now 1P8. It’s one of the best software I’ve ever used and I don’t know what I’d do without it. Same goes for Fastmail as well.

rickharrison20 hours ago

1password has progressively gotten worse every year for the past 5-10. 1password team if you are reading this, please stop making your software worse. Search which was great for years is now terrible and has jumbled results.

Some software should just be considered "done" and never changed again. 1Password is one of those things.

ivan_gammel20 hours ago

I don’t really understand this kind of comments that complain without any specifics. Worse how? I use two family subscriptions and a corporate one for many years and haven’t noticed any regression in functionality or UX. They release time to time minor quality of life improvements and continue supporting modern platforms. 1P7 to 1P8 upgrade went without any problems on all platforms I use. IMO this is the best password manager on the market by many measures.

What is your experience exactly?

MrDarcy19 hours ago

For me, I paid full price for the app. I attached many important documents such as my ID, SSN Card, my original birth cert, even the deed to my house. If I pass my wife knows where to get this info.

When my son was born I went to add his birth cert and SSN. I couldn’t. The “attach file” button is still there but it simply doesn’t work any more.

After hours of troubleshooting I finally found a discussion on their own support form where they acknowledged they explicitly disabled this feature. The solution is to switch to a paid subscription.

I’ll never buy software from them again. That’s just one example. They’ve removed similar functionality from cloud sync services to compel users to buy a subscription.

+2
maigret19 hours ago
wingerlang10 hours ago

Every couple of months, without fail, the chrome extension starts failing. It gets to the point where I see the "current popup style" and just know that I have to ignore it, open the actual 1Password app (and login there), and THEN go back to chrome and open the extension again.

Some periods of time I simply went to copy from the app itself because the extension didn't work.

Been a paid customer for over a decade, and I originally bought it because the apps were so nice and they really did work 100%. The last couple of years have been painful at times though.

hakanderyal11 hours ago

Safari extension works half the time at best. Sometimes it doesn't start working without restarting the browser after it crashes.

Cancelled my sub last night after many years.

I don't mind the price, or electron or anything, I just wanted it to fill the passwords in my browser reliably.

laborcontract8 hours ago

I feel your pain. It used to reliably save and fill passwords. It’s a huge mess that doesn’t even work.

vintagedave6 hours ago

I can give specifics.

* Their syncing broke, and their support promised that buying a subscription would make it work. I did. It didn't. A year later I managed to get it fixed. I'm now on a permanent subscription for something I used to own -- that's not bad by itself, but the feeling I've been taken advantage of, and promised something that was false, leaves a bad taste.

* Syncing sometimes doesn't work anyway. I might add an account on my laptop and not be able to access it on my phone for a day or more.

* It's much buggier. Sometimes the Mac app just doesn't appear when you click the menu bar icon (this happened to me just a minute ago.) You have to right-click and select Open 1Password to get the full app, after which the menu bar app will now work. Sometimes. Right now, it's not no matter what I do. Why? No idea, it's random.

* Basic password features seem missing. There is _still_ no way to edit in a 'Remember me' checkbox on a login form. I would like 1P to set that checkbox.

* The UX design gets worse each release. In 1Password 8 they removed the useful menu in the Mac menu bar. I can't check what it is now because of the bug above, but it used to show a list of passwords. Now it has some kind of pseudo-intelligent other menu that has to be invoked via a shortcut and the Mac menu bar app actually does almost nothing useful.

* Not to mention their UX design which comes from the "hide buttons until you mouse over and click a button you didn't realise was there" school of intuitiveness.

* More UX: the iOS app now has a list of favorites, but it's almost impossible to get the info you want. Take a bank card: you can tap it in the list to show the name, card number, etc, but if you want the ATM pin -- which is the number I most forget, and the useful one because my card number is saved everywhere that uses it -- you have to dig into the item itself. How? Via a tiny, tiny untappable arrow.

Worst is that interactions with them show an attitude that they think they're building a better and better app each release. They're not. I cannot wait until I can move away to the new Passwords app.

rickharrison18 hours ago

- 1Password used to support Dropbox syncing without a subscription. They allowed you to keep using the app, but they removed support for auto-filling logins from dropbox in Safari or Firefox. You could only auto-fill from vaults that you paid monthly for. Whatever, they win, I started paying monthly.

- They broke search in the past few months. I have multiple accounts with the same service (i.e. google, mercury) for personal and business. Now when searching it displays gibberish like 2FA backup codes from the notes instead of just having `${title} - ${username}` like it had for years

- They completely changed the left bar and moved around the entire UI multiple times. Credit cards used to be a simple click on the left side. Now I have to click "All Items" on the left side, then find the dropdown for "All Categories", click it, scroll down to Credit Cards and click on that.

It really comes down to the fact that it's a password manager. All it has to do is store passwords and fill them in when I need to sign in somewhere. Why has the UI fundamentally changed multiple times over the years throwing away all learned user behavior.

EDIT: There's also just the intangibles. I can't always remember specifics, but I "Feel" like 1password has been fighting me for years. I don't feel that way about many other pieces of software I use. 1Password just feels hostile in how they change/update things.

fckgw20 hours ago

1Password has gotten way, way better than it was a few years ago in my opinion. Tons of new features and the redesign a couple years ago was a big improvement.

klabb33 hours ago

> Tons of new features and the redesign

After LastPass lost it I shopped around and avoided 1Password precisely because it looks and is marketed like typical feature-oriented apps powered by VC valuations and growth metrics. I do not like trigger happy product management near critical single-purpose software. It’s already quite challenging, because pw managers need (1) offline support (2) a sync protocol that’s virtually bug free and (3) state of the art crypto/security and (4) wide cross platform support.

I prefer such an app to sit basically dormant until there’s a new industry development (like passkeys) to keep up with the times. And even then, those features should only be added thoughtfully with a defensive mindset to ensure stability going forward.

So tldr, your stated benefits are in fact the very reason a lot of people don’t like it.

jen2020 hours ago

The electron rewrite was a significant step backwards regardless of features and quality. I cannot wait to ditch 1P.

+1
xnyan16 hours ago
+1
e4019 hours ago
fourfour319 hours ago

I agree with this a lot.

I miss 1Password Mini in particular still (and no, Quick Access is not a replacement).

e4019 hours ago

I completely disagree. Yeah, the launch of 1PW8 was rocky. They didn't have feature parity on some devices (iOS). I waited a good while to update and when I did I had an issue with my Yubikey, so I went back to 1PW7 on iOS, but it was fantastic on macOS--way better than 7. After a short while, they fixed the Yubikey login issue with 8 on iOS and I have had exactly zero issues on macOS or iOS since, for about a year(ish).

Another data point: my 85 year old mother used to have issues with 7. She'd get confused about things. With 8, it's been clear sailing for her. That's pretty impressive to me.

pasc18786 hours ago

1password 8 on iOS is fine and I note no issues with it, it just works.

On macOS 1pw 7 worked with no issues, 1pw 8 doesn't

However the big issue is that 1pw8 requires you to use their cloud - so if someone takes over the company and changes things or the company goes bust or even if the company's servers get hit by DDOS you lose all things. 1pw7 allowed you to keep the main db on anything and use multiple sync mechanism. For example you could keep the data all on machines you own, you could be a business and that would matter for security. Yes cloud etc is secure but there are cases where you don't want things to be anywhere not on your machines.

gregoriol8 hours ago

I still use 1Password 7

AlexandrB3 hours ago

Yup. Wish I could go back to 6 because 7 feels noticeable slower, but 8 is a non-starter due to the lack of self-hosting or local vault options. I also hate how a bunch of "babysitting" features are forced on you in later (after 5 or so) 1Password releases. I don't want Watchtower to be pegged to the top of the sidebar - but there it is anyways. I don't want to set a password hint for the master password, but I'm forced to regardless.

pupppet20 hours ago

I dislike the new search so much, just make search work like it does in every other application. If you're reinventing the wheel for something so basic that's the first sign you're doing something very wrong.

yreg13 hours ago

>1password has progressively gotten worse every year for the past 5-10.

You can still use the standalone 1Password 6…

AlexandrB3 hours ago

A lot of the browser integrations are broken if you run older releases I think. Even 7 doesn't work with Chrome anymore.

blawson20 hours ago

1Password + Fastmail integration for generating masked email is also great.

Plus a nice UI for handling OTP, notes, credit cards, IDs, bank accounts, etc, it's easily worth the annual price for me.

squeegee_scream20 hours ago

Omg yes! Fastmail + 1P is soooo good. 1P has an integration with privacy.com to create unique debit cards. With these 3 tools I have a unique email, pw, and debit card for each service. Makes me feel in control over my interaction with a service. Here’s my referral link for privacy if you’re interested

https://privacy.com/join/JCPFN

xnyan15 hours ago

> privacy.com

Love the service, the problem is they effectively charge a 1-5% commission to use it because you lose credit card loyalty/rewards programs benefits. Last year I got nearly 3% back, I think that's too high for the service. I don't think there's any way around it unfortunately, credit cards rewards are paid by the fees and interest of those who carry a balance.

squeegee_scream4 hours ago

Good point, but we still use privacy.com for random stuff online. The majority of our online purchases happen at a handful of stores, and we use our credit card there. But especially for sketchy sites, we use privacy. For example I bought a keyboard from a small company in Russia (right before they invaded) and they’re probably completely legit but I’d rather lose the 1% on that purchase than be concerned they have my real card

nstart15 hours ago

Likewise. I think they are making some weird and off putting choices around the enterprise but for consumer stuff (which is squarely where the apple passwords comparison sits I assume) it’s still a great piece of software honestly.

sunshowers20 hours ago

Same, I'm actually a bit of a late adopter (only started using 1p in earnest once they came out with a Linux client) but it's been so great. I absolutely love the SSH agent in particular, it just works.

On topic, as a primarily Linux user I'm not in the target market for this (or any other Apple products or services really) and that's fine.

chx14 hours ago

You'd try Bitwarden...

mrweasel9 hours ago

I love the idea, pricing and open source nature of Bitwarden, but it's only good if you haven't used 1Password. Personally I was very critical about 1Passwords migration to Electron, but it has been really good to be honest. My assumption was that they had dropped the Electron plans, because I absolutely did not notice the change.

Bitwarden still fails to correctly identify basic username/password fields, but 1Password gets it right every single time.

tristan95711 hours ago

I was a BW customer and switched to 1P. 1P is so much better. The clients are better and the syncing of sessions between the browser, desktop, and CLI is amazing. 1P has great integration with Linux and SSH too.

davidee10 hours ago

Long, long, long-time 1P user (2007?) increasingly fed up with their anti-consumer practices (dishonestly hiding discussions on their community forum about App Store versions and dismissive “responses” were the final straw).

So I put vaultwarden on the cluster at home, built a backup routine I was comfortable with and started using BitWarden to evaluate it before trying to help the whole family switch (we have 8 users, including a grandmother and grandfather from different sides of the family).

All this to say, I have to agree. I could not, and will not, switch my family to BitWarden (for the foreseeable future). Search is AWFUL, there’s no way to sort my passwords (recently added, recently updated, etc.) and the clients are way way way slower than 1P (sure, probably in part to server on an underpowered compute instance). However, even the “offline behaviour” (when BitWarden clients can’t contact the server) is slow, and sometimes syncing just doesn’t work.

I completely agree, the worst part is just how limited and clumsy the front-end is for secret storing. It’s limited, ugly, and often hard to parse visually. I can’t imagine trying to help my aging father use it on his desktop, much less his smartphone - where he’s had great success with 1P.

While I continue to have great disdain for AgileBits, 1P is still the most user friendly password manager for a group that includes definitely-not-technically-inclined people. I wish it wasn’t, I wish I could stop giving them money, but compared to the competition, there’s just nothing else that comes close.

sooheon13 hours ago

It just doesn't work for me for safari mac. Authenticating with fingerprint takes many seconds (and often doesn't work).

brainzap5 hours ago

the 1password search is horrible, it does fuzzy search and not match exat results etc

there is more, too lazy to write

tootie19 hours ago

We used 1pwd at my company and I have a paid family account. I love it. Think it's worth every penny.

dylan60420 hours ago

you really enjoy paying each month for access to your passwords? really?

max_20 hours ago

One of the reasons for bad software products & corporations taking advantage of users is this free loader mindset.

What exactly is wrong with paying $10 per year for a well done product?

LVB20 hours ago

You get 1P for $10/year?

I'm willing to pay for a lot of software, but the costs are certainly real (especially in aggregate), and I try to be mindful of whether it is worth it to me. I would definitely pay $10/year for a password manager. I currently pay $36/year. Would I pay $100? No. But I'm not sure where the cutoff is.

And then I have to do this for every pricier piece of software. (For all of the lower-cost, one-time payments, little apps, etc. I just pay and move on.)

dylan60420 hours ago

If it were $10, we might have a conversation.

I paid for my full version of 1Pass way back when, and upgraded all the way through to v7. It was a one time fee and used until they broke it.

I never said refused to pay for it, but a monthly fee in perpetuity is just ridiculous to me.

+1
max_20 hours ago
+1
brailsafe20 hours ago
eknkc20 hours ago

I do. It is a critical software for me. Why would I use something inferior?

JumpCrisscross20 hours ago

> really enjoy paying each month for access to your passwords?

When it comes to a password manager, I appreciate having constant access to updates. That isn’t feasible for one-and-done code.

That said, it’s 1Password’s bugginess that will have me looking at Apple’s offering. (Particularly how it performs on non-Safari browsers, e.g. Orion and Firefox.)

e4019 hours ago

I used it with my family and it's worth paying monthly for it. Passwords are so incredibly important. If I was hit by a car tomorrow, I know a huge chunk of my life is there for people to just pick up.

Marsymars19 hours ago

> If I was hit by a car tomorrow, I know a huge chunk of my life is there for people to just pick up.

My wife and I have talked a bit about this recently but haven't implemented anything yet. (I use 1Password, and she doesn't have access other than a shared vault, and vice-versa with iCloud passwords.)

One thing that gives me a bit of hesitation is from a security standpoint - if we have access to each other's accounts and one of us falls victim to, for instance, a password-manager-level phishing scheme, the fallout from both of us having to recover from that at the same time is dramatically more of an inconvenience than if only one of us is affected.

Happy to hear from anyone else who's thought about this and any approaches they may have been taken - there doesn't seem to be much discussion about it online.

briHass3 hours ago

If you're worried about banking passwords and accounts, those shouldn't be shared logins. Banks in the US have specific procedures for handling the death of account holders, and someone logging in as the deceased is problematic. Beneficiary designation and percentages needs to be followed, and if a spouse/other logs in and starts moving money around, all that has to be unwound.

My break glass implementation is a printed sheet of all my financial orgs and account numbers (including bills I handle). All the beneficiary designations are done, so my wife would just need to give them the death certificate and she'd have control of the funds.

e4019 hours ago

The information in 1PW is the most important information I have. I have a Yubikey because of that.

short_sells_poo20 hours ago

Yeah. I want to pay the people who look after the thing that stores my most precious information. I want them to be overpaid and look after their golden goose.

It seems nuts to me that you expect someone to provide you a service for free?

dylan60420 hours ago

I never said free. Did I? Just because someone is revolting against rent seeking companies vs building a solid product and increasing users this forum likes to denigrate them into being freeloaders. You've got the wrong idea and are running with it in the wrong direction.

+1
JumpCrisscross20 hours ago
ipqk21 hours ago

I've been an avid 1Password user for over 10 years, but since they gone full-throttle targeting the enterprise market, I'm getting more and more annoyed. It's increasingly buggy (right now, it thinks I haven't migrated from 1p7 which causes annoying interstitials that I can't close. Over a month and no fix yet.). They killed standalone vaults. Obvious feature requests (e.g archive an entire vault) sit there for years untouched. The value is increasingly not there anymore for me, and here's hoping I can finally jump ship this fall.

dylan60420 hours ago

I have been fighting switching to the SaaS version. Paying a monthly fee for access to my passwords is highway robbery. I do not want/need any of these other "services" they forced upon me. I have trying Apples keychain, but that migration is slow and a total pain in the ass. And it's not even a good replacement.

I'm sure 1Password doesn't care one iota about loosing individual users with attitudes like this. Until the forced to a monthly rent seeking hand in my pocket policy was deployed, I had been a vocal advocate for 1Pass. Now, they're about to loose me altogether

troad11 hours ago

> I have been fighting switching to the SaaS version

I felt that way on principle for a long time, but honestly, on reflection, 1P is probably subscription that is most justifiable. I want to outsource online security to people that know what they are doing. I want that to be a viable business for a long time into the future. And I want their funding model to be such that their interests are aligned with those of their paying users (me).

People can get so irrational when it comes to the cost of software. The same person who'd pay hundreds of dollars for a cleaner, or a gym membership, will swear up and down that 70 bucks a year for an online bodyguard is highway robbery.

JumpCrisscross20 hours ago

> Paying a monthly fee for access to my passwords is highway robber

It would be. Fortunately, 1Password doesn’t do that [1].

You’re paying for an important piece of software to be maintained.

> I'm sure 1Password doesn't care one iota about loosing individual users with attitudes like this

Probably not. Emphasis on attitude.

[1] https://support.1password.com/frozen-account/

dylan60420 hours ago

This entire assumption that I'm a freeloader is absolute bullshit. I've bought and paid for my copies of 1Password and have even purchased it for others. You can take that freeloader name calling and shove it right back in the place you found it. I'm quite frankly tired of it.

We can have upgrades and working software that gets updates without monthly fees to do it. I also do not need their cloud and only features. They intentionally removed the local vaults specifically to force you to use their cloud. That was the last straw for me.

stouset19 hours ago

> We can have upgrades and working software that gets updates without monthly fees to do it.

No, the last twenty years has show us that we can't.

If you want developers to perform ongoing work on their products, you need to accept a model where there's ongoing pay for that work.

+1
JumpCrisscross19 hours ago
spike02120 hours ago

Interesting. Earlier this year I migrated passwords out of 1Password and a few from LastPass and Apple Keychain supported both easily. Just not more complex types of credentials. Every password and website was imported correctly as expected. If not I have yet to notice.

kshacker20 hours ago

I tried to do the same and failed. The questions were 1) multi-browser support - I use Safari, Chrome, Firefox and Opera - there is a reason for this and I do not want to authorize some of my browsers everyday to serve passwords, 2) ease of use for family with different level of computer/iOS proficiency amongst them. As of now, they are happily running on 1password, but I will be happy to try again this year and next.

dylan60420 hours ago

On top of that having to open up system preferences to add a new entry was just insane. Hopefully, this new UI into it will lessen that pain.

buzzerbetrayed20 hours ago

1Password has the most reasonable pricing out of just about any SaaS company. $1/user/month if you're on a family plan. $3/month for individuals. And they provide a great service.

Strongly disagree that they're part of the group of SaaS companies trying to price gouge their users.

dylan60420 hours ago

Cloud only, and they removed local storage of the vaults. If I'm somewhere that doesn't have internet connectivity, what happens then?

Dislike of SaaS isn't limited to monthly fees, but the lack of features they removed to encourage SaaS adoption

beart12 hours ago

If you are using a device that previously accessed your vault, it will be cached and accessible. It just won't sync until you regain network connectivity.

+3
musictubes18 hours ago
data-ottawa3 hours ago

Ever since Apple added password management to Safari it’s been clear that 1Password was going to get Sherlocked, the switch to enterprise mashes perfect sense from a corporate perspective. Chrome and Firefox offer the same features, so now every browser is competing too.

I’m finding most of the friction with 1Password I run into is actually Apple competing for autofill in Safari creating two completely different UIs above every form element.

The other issue I have is Safari Home apps not supporting extensions so you can only use Safari’s built in manager. I think that’s fixed in Sequoia.

iansinnott14 hours ago

I suspect you won't be satisfied with Apple's offering if you enjoy stable software, unfortunately.

I agree regarding 1pass, but at least it's still firmly trying to solve the password management problem. Apple is trying to solve the vendor lock-in problem (i.e. how can they lock more users in to their platform).

twixfel2 hours ago

My last password manager got sold to some guy in Morocco and my passwords put behind a pay wall, and then lost. Bring on the vendor lock in, I’m so done with all that other shit.

epistasis12 hours ago

I've been using Apple's password manager for more than a decade; and though the last OS update had a new UI, it still offered the old UI at the same time.

Every other password manager I have tried has had continuous churn, nothing consistent after a couple years.

I have passwords for accounts in my Apple keychain that have survived more than decade and about half a dozen different devices, to internal servers that have been dead for a decade.

The only new thing here is opening it up to more platforms.

drcongo20 hours ago

I'm only still on it because of team use, but if Apple's thing supports teams I'm gonna be so happy to get rid of it.

I've been using it for nearly 20 years and it's been going down hill fast for the last 5, but 1Password 8 is an absolute clown car. It hijacks your passkey logins meaning that authenticating with Tailscale for me has gone from a single touch of the TouchID button on my Mac, to 1) click button that says "Unlock 1Password", 2) Click it again because it did fuck all the first time, 3) hit the global hotkey for 1Password, 4) open 1Password via Alfred because the hotkey has decided to stop working again, 5) touch the TouchID button to unlock 1Password, 6) switch back to the browser to find that my Tailscale auth has timed out, 7) back to iTerm to initiate the auth again, 8) if I'm lucky, I can now touch the TouchID button to use my Apple passkey, if I'm not, it's back to step 1.

I'd challenge anyone to name an app that has been ruined more by VC money than 1Password.

acdha15 hours ago

The password sharing feature is pretty slick:

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/share-passwords-iphe6...

I’m with you on 1P. I bought every version starting in 2009, until the constant push to subscribe made me stop. The part their VCs should be afraid of is that switching took about 5 minutes (export + import) and the only change I noticed is that everything is faster. That moat is a trickle of water (I hope it’s water) and they’ve annoyed a lot of the people who used to be telling their friends and family to buy it.

dalyons12 hours ago

Hah glad I’m not crazy. Used it and loved every version since 3x, but 8 is just so fucking buggy it drives me bananas. It just doesn’t work half the time!

sooheon13 hours ago

You nailed my 8 step 1P unlock workflow. They've really done a great job standardizing the user experience.

anonexpat20 hours ago

Evernote.

drcongo7 hours ago

Not a bad shout, but no matter how awful it got, I'd argue there never was a good version of Evernote.

bowsamic20 hours ago

I've used Bitwarden for a while now and it has been so better than LastPass or 1Password ever was for me. I never understood the 1Password hype, it was easily the worst experience of any password manager I tried.

lxgr19 hours ago

Bitwarden gets my vote too.

Besides just working as expected, it importantly supports self-hosting. I don't currently make use of that, but have given it a try and it's great as well.

Having alternatives to the SaaS (currently very reasonably priced) is invaluable.

nashashmi14 hours ago

I miss lastpass auto login. And i wish bitwarden had a merge for duplicate entries. Otherwise, bw is good. I also wish i was able to utilize totp keys like i can with iCloud

alx__20 hours ago

Is your computer managed by Jamf? I had that 1Password 7 issue because of policy issue

ents20 hours ago

Same here. Hoping I can jump ship before next renewal.

Turfie3 hours ago

My brother convinced me to try a 1Password family account, since it would be cheaper. Ever since, the Chrome plugin takes forever to login. Sometimes up to 5-6 seconds. And it really annoys me that they have so many resources and money, and it's still this expensive for a very very basic application, and slow to boot.

I tried out passwords, and combined with Safari, it's an absolute godsend compared to 1Password. That does mean that I switched from Brave to Safari, and thus have YouTube ads, and so I'm now paying for YouTube haha

HenryBemis3 hours ago

Just to rub it in your face :) (teasingly and with respect) I got Android/LastPass/Firefox and only pay for the LastPass annually (I got it on all my devices), so there you have it ;)

mmanfrin21 hours ago

Pointless if it doesnt have cross platform. Apple devices already basically have a password manager, the main reason more people don't use it it is because it doesnt also work on android or windows, not because it's not a standalone app called Passwords.

throw0101d21 hours ago

> Pointless if it doesnt have cross platform.

As mentioned in another news article on the topic:

> It also syncs with PCs via the iCloud for Windows app.

* https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/10/24175505/apple-password-a...

and in the keynote itself:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXeOiIDNNek&t=59m32s

pdpi21 hours ago

Last I tried it, iCloud for Windows didn't integrate with Firefox, though.

_JamesA_20 hours ago

Or Linux.

throw0101d5 hours ago

> Or Linux.

I guess Apple does not think that 2024 will be the Year of the Linux Desktop.

niek_pas9 hours ago

I don't think Apple minds.

Someone20 hours ago

I would think it would be Firefox which would have to support iCloud for Windows.

If password managers could interfere with password fields in Firefox without its help, malware could do that, too.

Or is there a generic password manager API on Windows that Apple doesn’t implement?

+1
ivan_gammel19 hours ago
boxed5 hours ago

The timestamp you gave talks about Baldurs Gate :P

throw0101d5 hours ago
bastawhiz20 hours ago

And for those of us without an iPhone?

nani8ot20 hours ago

Being locked into the eco system is my main reason for avoiding Apple products. Switching from an iPhone to an Android phone was painless for me because I didn't use any of the Apple services (iMessage, iCloud, Passwords). If I had to simultaneously switch from Passwords to Bitwarden would've been time consuming and annoying.

pavel_lishin20 hours ago

Then we're not their target demographic.

wiseowise20 hours ago

Just need to install windows on my phone, duh.

donohoe21 hours ago

Hardly. While not everyone is entirely within the Apple eco-system a huge number of people are that go beyond the necessary critical mass. Apple already built this into the OS they just kept it under the clunky Settings UI - so seems like a logical and low-effort move.

If the Family Sharing aspects are well done I'd happily say goodbye to my 1Password subscription.

vundercind20 hours ago

Being in system settings makes sense to me. Having the place to see the same stuff on macOS be Safari’s settings window is the bizarre part.

Regardless, I’ve been using it for years now. Works fine. Better UI will be nice assuming this doesn’t come with a bunch of updates that somehow manage to make it work less-well.

jrexilius21 hours ago

My approach has been to move it out of the vendor OS entirely and embedd it in the keyboard. I'll be releasing this as open source (hardware & software) soon:

https://www.anomie.tech/products/anigma/ce/

throwaway4847621 hours ago

Any connection to what bunnie is doing with precursor?

jrexilius20 hours ago

No connection other than being a fan. I started working on my (simpler) approach before precursor was launched and think there is a place for both, but I'm a big fan of all the work he and his team are doing.

toddmorey21 hours ago

It does work on windows; the mentioned that. No word yet on Android.

Hamuko21 hours ago

No dedicated app on Windows though, it'll be part of their existing iCloud Windows application.

norman78421 hours ago

The password manager that we have today is terrible, that's why people are not using it.

r0m4n021 hours ago

Agreed, for me it needs a solid webapp too. I reference personal credentials on my corp laptop and can't/won't login to anything that's in the system and am unable to install any unauthorized apps.

saithier21 hours ago

They did say there was a windows client in the keynote.

trustno28 hours ago

The lock-in is the point.

I mean, why else would Apple invest in something like this. They became the richest company in the world by increasing lock-in in every step.

wwalexander21 hours ago

It works on Windows.

everdrive3 hours ago

I don't think Apple has built this maliciously for this purpose, but for normal users this will be a strong motivator vendor lock-in.

godzillabrennus4 hours ago

I’ve had my iCloud account corrupted twice since they switched from dot Mac. Zero chance I’ll ever trust Apple with anything serious. I don’t even trust them to keep my contacts safe from corruption. Never going to trust them with my passwords.

ein0p22 hours ago

This needs to be multiplatform for it to be a viable option for the more tech inclined. I run all three major desktop operating systems plus iOS, so I use Bitwarden

jrexilius21 hours ago

My approach has been to move all of the critical secrets out of the vendor device and embed it in a keyboard. It then works with anything that accepts a keyboard.. I'll be releasing this as open source (hardware & software) soon:

https://www.anomie.tech/products/anigma/ce/

hiatus21 hours ago

How far out is the phone peripheral?

jrexilius21 hours ago

Sadly, proly not till next year. I'm funding this myself and hardware is hard. Embedding it into a case has a whole lotta mechanical engineering challenges as well.

The desktop and tablet version will be released this year though.

+1
hiatus20 hours ago
nullindividual21 hours ago

It is available across the two major desktop operating systems, but you'd have to read the article to find that out.

> The Passwords app is free to download, available across iOS 18, iPadOS 18, and MacOS 15, and will also work with the Vision Pro and Windows computers, says Apple.

smsm4221 hours ago

No Linux or Android, which makes it useless for anybody having any devices running those. And since nobody wants to use two password managers, it remains a better solution to use a truly multi-platform one.

nullindividual20 hours ago

Linux isn't even relevant in this context with it's <1% DWM install base. Android, yes you have a point, though a Mac and Android is a strange combination.

neocritter20 hours ago

What's the % look like for people who use password managers? There's probably a reason they all support Linux.

smsm4219 hours ago

What's strange in it? I've been using macs and android phones for over a decade. And a lot of tech savvy people do the same. Macbooks have been a solid dev platform for a while, and do not really require any mobile platform preference.

haswell21 hours ago

Desktop Linux market share continues to grow and as a part of that group, I rely on 1Password because I can use it across all of my systems.

The other major password managers are on Linux, and Apple will need to support Linux for this new offering to be interesting to me.

neocritter21 hours ago

The existence of a port does not guarantee future support of a port. Safari used to run on Windows. They're also somewhat notorious for trash quality Windows ports.

ein0p21 hours ago

If it’s anything like their other Windows apps, Bitwarden is still going to be a superior option.

stvltvs21 hours ago

I'm using KeepassXC for similar reasons although there's no official Android port last I checked.

josephcsible21 hours ago

The official site recommends KeePassDX and KeePass2Android: https://keepassxc.org/docs/#faq-platform-mobile

Tyrannosaur20 hours ago

Keepass2Android has been working great for me for almost a decade now

https://github.com/PhilippC/keepass2android

spike02121 hours ago

I started using Keychain pretty much primarily this year (other than 1Password at work) and it works pretty seamlessly for me (granted Apple devices only). Even the Chrome extension works quickly as if it were a native part of Chrome.

Glad they're splitting it out of System Settings into a dedicated app.

I've also started migrating family members to it. It'll be way easier for the less technical people since it's already tightly integrated in the devices and OS they use everyday.

mdeeks21 hours ago

Does the Chrome extension still require you to enter a six digit code every day to even use it? When I tried it this was incredibly annoying and I switched back to 1password shortly after.

spike02121 hours ago

Not sure that it's every day but I haven't been too bothered by it. It's not unlike the security policies where I work. So needing to type in a OTP isn't out of my normal routine.

eastbound21 hours ago

It’s important, otherwise that means any locally-running binary (maven, npm) can steal all of your passwords, since they are in clear on your computer.

criddell21 hours ago

Does macOS sandbox things like maven or npm? Do they need read access for everything the user can see?

duxup21 hours ago

I often was looking to see "do I have that in keychain" and ... I'd forget where to find it as it wasn't a dedicated app.

Toutouxc21 hours ago

You’re both talking about iOS, right? Because on the Mac it’s always been a dedicated app.

duxup20 hours ago

Yes, I am for sure thinking of iOS.

spike02120 hours ago

Yeah. But even for Mac it's always been more of a technical utility app. When I say that it feels more akin to Disk Utility than the Notes app (in terms of who it's meant for).

lxgr19 hours ago

These days it even shows you a popup that asks something along the lines of "are you sure you want this app and not the iCloud Keychain tab in System Preferences".

egypturnash21 hours ago

So… this new app does most of what the depreciated “Keychain” app did, except now it’s got a iOS-looking UI. Huzzah, I guess, the “passwords” section in the iOS-restyled system prefs sure wasn’t substituting for Keychain for me. Passwords doesn’t appear to handle secure notes, though, and I still have a few of those, too.

I still really hate the iOS-restyled system prefs. Tiny unresizable text, a long vertical scroll. I can’t find a damn thing in it and just use the search bar every time and feel faintly annoyed about it.

spike02121 hours ago

We've been able to lock notes in the Notes app for a while either with a password or Touch/FaceID.

egypturnash18 hours ago

Oh, you can? I should look into that then, thanks. I’ve vaguely settled on Notes as “I guess this is the least shitty replacement for the specific way Evernote fit I to my life” but have never actually sat down with its manual to see what it can actually do.

Hopefully Adobe won’t decide to start shitting a bunch of authorization credentials into private Notes the way they took over the Private Notes section of Keychain.

jamil711 hours ago

Notes has become one of the better (best) first-party software offerings from Apple. They seem to have a really good team working on it.

selykg21 hours ago

I noticed a "Notes" section in password items. So, I guess in theory you could utilize those.

But my biggest one is wanting to store secure files. Think copies of a drivers license, signed documents or various certs and keys. That's not being covered here either for me sadly. It's not a super common situation for me so I can probably find an alternative app for that purpose.

Edit: Also for notes, I'd just password protect something in the Notes app. But that's just me.

lrhegeba7 hours ago

for this requirement i choose to use encrypted sparse files (can be created with the disk manager app) which i store on the icloud. is only of use if you happen to have a laptop with you as mounting them is not supported in iOS

catoc21 hours ago

For iOS & Mac https://thevault-app.com does exactly that for me. Storing PDFs, or just plain images of passport, drivers license etc (in addition to passwords). It’s a bit on the technical site (eg, also has cmd: prefix for terminal commands etc)

kylemart6 hours ago

At least now you’ll be able to prompt Siri to figure out where your settings are /s

Hippocrates4 hours ago

Thank god. I think 1pw has been mostly good, but it has frustrating quirks... Like requiring me to input the master password on the iOS app/OSX/Browser extension (on the same device) as if each of these apps have no way of communicating.

I constantly have issues with it not engaging on a form where I have to manually switch to 1pw, though it has gotten a bit better over the years.

I hate to see a company/product get sherlocked but I don't feel like password security was something we should need to have a subscription for.

myaccountonhn21 hours ago

I always feel like these password solutions are there to lock you into their platform. I would never use Apples nor Mozillas password solutions personally.

kstrauser21 hours ago

I used 1Password for years. Last year I decided to try out Apple's built-in manager (for which this new app is a pretty frontend for a feature that already existed). I was able to export all my passwords out of 1P and import them into 1P. Then my company gave us all free personal 1P accounts, and I decided to migrate back. I exported all my data out of Apple's password manager and imported it 1Password, then ran a script to de-dupe entries.

There's not much else to add: it just worked. I wish all "lock in" were that open.

senpos10 hours ago

It is very hard to move from iCloud Keychain to KeePassXC. Export functionality does not exist in the "Passwords" section of the settings on iPhone. It is also not available in the iCloud for Web. So, I had to go through all my passwords and reset them + create new entries in KeePassXC, one by one, which is very annoying. :-)

josephcsible21 hours ago

That's a great reason to not use Apple's, but Mozilla's doesn't lock you in at all.

hunter2_21 hours ago

The way Google's password manager covers websites anywhere I'm logged into Chrome plus native Android apps anywhere I'm logged into Google Play is super convenient though (albeit total lock-in, I won't argue that). Some apps are even developed well enough that a password originally stored via Chrome will be suggested for the app, I guess by cross-referencing the origins in some mutual way. And payment card details will auto-fill pretty smoothly in a very similar way, as well.

It's fantastic, and for some reason I trust OS/browser developers to do this more safely than a company focused on password management that has to figure out OS APIs, write browser extensions, or rely on a clipboard that has nearly unbounded read access.

cozzyd13 hours ago

Not sure people should take password advice from hunter2

smileysteve20 hours ago

The security positive of a browser integration is you eliminate the human part of url validation; effectively stopping phishing.

watermelon021 hours ago

> Some apps are even developed well enough that a password originally stored via Chrome will be suggested for the app

At least on iOS, this works for any password manager.

stemlord21 hours ago

That's apple's entire MO, yes

jftuga20 hours ago

I've been using KeePassXC on Mac and Windows and sync them between each other with Unison[1]. I'd be curious to learn how others who are using KeePassXC are syncing there databases with iPhone.

[1] https://gist.github.com/jftuga/0265e5403d56373662b9513d8816e...

senpos10 hours ago

KeePassium + db file on Google Drive through Files app

lmz18 hours ago

Dropbox and KeePassium on the phone.

sngz20 hours ago

Keepass2android and proton drive along with the keepass windows app

sngz20 hours ago

Proton drive and keepassx, keepass2android and keepass

lotsofpulp20 hours ago

Strongbox app and storing the database in iCloud Drive.

jwells8921 hours ago

Timely with how official support for the old 1Password 7 apps probably won’t be continued for too much longer, with 1Password pushing users over to the notably worse v8 apps. I’ll probably switch.

selykg21 hours ago

The biggest reason I'm moving away from 1Password is the abysmal support for Safari Profiles. It's so bad it's ridiculous.

Right now for instance I have a Personal profile, and a few work specific ones around admin, development, and my day-to-day work to split things off easily. I have 1Password unlocked in one profile and it works in that, but if I switch to any other profile it needs to be unlocked, then it tells me it needs to reload the extension. Reloading it doesn't do anything but break it again. I have to fully quit Safari then it works again for some unknown amount of time then falls apart completely soon after (probably laptop sleep or something like that).

Just a shitshow all around from 1Password anymore. How the mighty have fallen due to profits and investors.

lowbloodsugar21 hours ago

Right. 1Password 7 is the last one to have private vaults. After that dies, I have no reason to use 1Password over anything else. SSH? Yeah, need that for work - which absolutely bans storing those on the cloud.

baryphonic21 hours ago

Interesting. I liked the 1Password 6 UI, was frustrated with 1Password 7 and have been loving 1Password 8 so far. Version 7 seemed really clunky when I needed to do certain workflows.

jwells8921 hours ago

What I dislike about the 7 → 8 transition is that it went from feeling like a handcrafted Mac app to an indistinguishable generic SaaS thing, which is exacerbated by 8 being built with Electron (which brings dozens of little papercuts that are difficult to smooth out, even if the dev cares to try to).

jimnotgym3 hours ago

I feel like an old man saying it, but does anyone else remember competition law existing?

megamix3 hours ago

I never used 1Pass, I'd suggest ppl to make their own mental template for passwords that can be applied to different sites instead.

eknkc3 hours ago

I have 627 items in my 1P vault. That won't work.

daft_pink20 hours ago

I think it needs multiple domains for an account. It appears this hasn’t changed from their current setup from the screenshots in the presentation.

I don’t want to switch from 1pass if I can’t set 2 or 3 separate webdomains for an account as I find this to be the most annoying feature of apple passwords, when a website has a separate register page from it’s login pages. In 1pass you can just delete the subdomain and add domains. Apple doesn’t allow you to edit at all :(

jkkorn6 hours ago

I just hope the next feature is FaceID on the Mac.

pkamb21 hours ago

My annoyance with Keychain has been that items kind of appear there as I type in a username and password on the web. Feels rather ephemeral, like old "saved passwords" in Internet Explorer or whatever. Feels like I'm one browser cookie reset away from losing everything.

Whereas with 1Password I use a separate app to CREATE a new Login file for an app/website/anything. I can save that file with as much or a little information filled out as desired. Can create arbitrary info files for Passports, library membership cards, etc. I know the information for each is forever stored exactly as I created it, always syncing, never overwritten when I type in a different password and accidentally hit "save" in a webform.

I hope the new Apple Passwords app is more like the later; if so I would switch.

whitepoplar21 hours ago

I hope it includes credit cards, rewards programs, IDs/Passports, etc. so that I can cancel my 1Password subscription.

quenix9 hours ago

Credit cards are saved separately already, I believe

diebeforei48518 hours ago

1Password has gotten progressively worse. It's now an Electron app (so it's slower to load), and some features have stopped working well.

They took VC funding to pivot to enterprise, anticipating that OS vendors would integrate basic password management features (what most of their usage at the time) into the OS.

So the consumer experience has been de-prioritized. I will not be renewing my 1Password subscription.

hankman869 hours ago

Companies like 1Password must be having a bad day. They have previously been held back by Apple, resulting in a poor user experience on iOS. And now Cupertino is entering into direct competition. Let’s see if Apple reaches feature parity and in particular, actually offers decent cross-platform support.

alistairSH4 hours ago

The article is light on details… what does this do that the current Passwords “app” (setting?) does not?

bluSCALE410 hours ago

I was happy using Bitwarden until recent updates that basically block out the entire form input. It's a dark pattern to me, built off fear and that's not the perception I want to see in someone in charge of my passwords.

epaulson20 hours ago

Are there APIs to get the iCloud sync into my own app? I'm all for iCloud syncing to my devices I just want a way to also get a backup in a file so if Apple decides to delete my account on a whim, I don't lose everything.

musictubes18 hours ago

What account are you worried about Apple deleting? If they nuke your iCloud account your info is still on the device.

sgerenser21 hours ago

I think this will finally get me to switch from 1Password 7. I was never going to go to the new, subscription-only, electron-based 1Password, so its either hold out on 1P7 for as long as possible or look for something new.

bee_rider21 hours ago

I don’t quite understand how this will be different from what built in iPhone password manager.

Something I’d really like: let my iPhone act as a Bluetooth (obviously encryption will be necessary!) or USB keyboard, and have it hold my passwords/type them. That way I could keep my passwords all in one place, and manage them locally. Currently I use keepass when not on iOS, which is fine, but I don’t really want to have to expose my whole passwords file to a Windows machine, since they are traditionally infested with malware (and apparently MS is flirting with including their own first party malware).

denimnerd4221 hours ago

The offline device with a plugin usb keyboard that "types" in your username and password is exactly what i've wanted forever. There are some devices people have made and posted online. I made a POC with an old android phone once but never got past that stage.

I investigated the bluetooth encryption and it didn't really seem up to the task. You could create a dongle that lived on wifi though that would do the same.

bee_rider21 hours ago

I think it depends on the password, Bluetooth encryption would probably be fine for, like, my forums passwords. If anyone within, like, 50 feet of me right now wants to break into my Hackernews account… IDK, my dog does seem like a real jerk actually, so if I make any dumb posts let’s assume that she’s stolen my passwords.

A dedicated device would be nice and, actually, keeping your passwords on something that never even has to touch the internet would be ideal. But my phone already has a nice big touchscreen to make it easier to pick a password. Reusing an old device could work but that’s limited.

denimnerd4220 hours ago

i've thought of all kinds of iterations with varying levels of security. the phone with BT encryption would be fine in general but that would get picked apart for security if you actually tried to market it as secure.

the really secure way I was thinking is a small touch device that could be small enough to slide into your wallet or even as a device that would live in a phone case exposed on the back of your phone. then there would be a small yubi key like dongle that you'd plug in to whatever your target device is and it would communicate over wifi. that would be like the ultra paranoid version. then you could have the iphone/android app that communicates with the dongle, the one that uses BT encryption, the one that uses a USB cable from the phone to emulate a keyboard.. options are endless.

there's some features you could have like computer vision to recognize the login prompt. it's easy to get into an imaginative loop with the ideas.

jrexilius21 hours ago

I'm getting ready to release ours as open source (hardware and software) soon:

https://www.anomie.tech/products/anigma/ce/

denimnerd4220 hours ago

oh wow. i can't wait to see more!

jiveturkey21 hours ago

could you post a link or 2 of the DIY devices? very interesting since this kind of device obviously needs a lot of integration into the PWM software ecosystem.

sureIy21 hours ago

It's a proper app that can be reached in one click rather than hidden in system UIs. Basically Keychain Access but for 2024 rather than 2001

jiveturkey21 hours ago

I don't have a full answer for you, but you've hit on the major problem with all client-side PWMs.

rodolphoarruda21 hours ago

And put all the eggs into the same basket? No, thanks. I prefer to spread critical responsibilities among a small group of "little tech" companies that offer clear and concise data portability among them.

shallichange21 hours ago

Why would I use it over Bitwarder?

AnonC21 hours ago

Mainly depends on which platforms you use. If you’re using Bitwarden on Android and/or Linux, then this isn’t a replacement. If you’re on Apple’s iOS/iPadOS/macOS or are on Windows, you can use this. These are also native apps, unlike Bitwarden’s Electron monstrosity on the desktop.

Bitwarden has been lagging in implementing any consumer features for some years now (custom item types has been on the roadmap for six years and is still not done). Except for secure notes in Bitwarden, I don’t think you’d miss anything else in this app. Bitwarden is spending money and focus on the enterprise, just like 1Password has been. For the consumer segment, neither of these are good enough now.

jimt123420 hours ago

> Bitwarden has been lagging in implementing any consumer features for some years now...

This is actually the reason why I like Bitwarden. They don't seem to be constantly trying to push unwanted features on me. I've always been a fan of the first "rule" of the Unix Philosophy: do one thing well.

HaZeust21 hours ago

I'll be trying this out, but moving me from Bitwarden will prove quite a feat - especially since it was the best option for me after trying over 10 password managers while I was still window shopping for one.

nsbk21 hours ago

I’m in the same boat. I really enjoy Bitwarden but I’m willing to give this a try to see if it’s as good as it could be

throwawayq342321 hours ago

I will need a tool to transfer over all the pws, doing that manually is a non starter

+1
nsbk19 hours ago
lawn21 hours ago

You probably shouldn't.

But it might make other people who don't use a password manager start using one.

fckgw21 hours ago

Because it's already built into the devices I use

block_dagger21 hours ago

Bitwarden integrates pretty well on Apple devices/apps already, although I guess you could save a tap by using a native app.

senpos10 hours ago

They also have TOTP support built-in for free, which is very convenient. With Bitwarden, you need to pay for that.

Hamuko21 hours ago

It's native and not Electron shit?

bowsamic20 hours ago

Considering I only ever use it as a Chrome plugin anyway, that's not much of a sell

HaZeust21 hours ago

What's wrong with Electron?

AnonC21 hours ago

Electron apps are usually (not always necessarily) sluggish and don’t support native UI paradigms or keyboard shortcuts or navigation. The Bitwarden desktop app is one of the bad ones.

Hamuko21 hours ago

Disk space for one. The Bitwarden macOS application is around 390 MB. For comparison, Firefox is 388 MB. They're usually much worse from a CPU and RAM perspective too.

theogravity20 hours ago

Lack of Linux support and i'm not sure if it handles storing files (eg pdfs) is what would hold me from adopting this.

I use 1pass across all platforms.

crowcroft22 hours ago

I would guess the reality is companies like 1Password make almost all their revenue through B2B relationships. I doubt Apple will encroach too much in that space (lack of sales reps/support etc.)

Curious to see how this ends up impacting competitor's businesses or not though! If Apple gives themselves access to a bunch of integrations and APIs no one else can that sounds like they would be abusing their monopoly power...

pocketarc21 hours ago

It works on Mac -and- Windows? Goodbye 1Password! The browser extension has been SO buggy for me on Safari ever since v8, I'm SO excited that I might finally be able to ditch it. I even mentioned it in a comment before[0]. Looks like the day has come!

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36427945

wwalexander21 hours ago

One of my biggest feature wishes finally come true. A few updates back they made the Passwords section in Settings one level less deep, and I was very frustrated they realized it should be easily accessible but didn’t bother making it a standalone app when Keychain existed on Mac.

jljljl18 hours ago

I want to use this, but this post gave me pause:

https://x.com/blader/status/1800263787746066646

"apple sherlocked 1Password today, so i'd like to remind you that your Apple ID is only as secure as your carrier.

if you have 2FA on and get SIM swapped, attackers can lock you out of it PERMANENTLY.

last month it happened to me. make sure it doesn't happen to you: "

Getting locked out of all my passwords would be pretty disastrous. Did Apple announce a change to the account lockout procedure as well?

DuckConference10 hours ago

You can add security keys as a 2FA method and it will disable use of the trusted phone number for authentication

arijun7 hours ago

Is this just a standalone app for the existing password manager in settings, or is there more to it?

danielecook12 hours ago

I’m concerned about how secure this will be. What happens, for example, if you experience a sim swap attack?

How will apple protect all of your password data in this case?

Will the setup allow for an additional password to prevent hackers from gaining access?

PlunderBunny20 hours ago

I've never understood why there are some passwords that exist in the macOS keychain app that don't appear in the Passwords section of the macOS System Settings (I think the password for my WiFi hotspot is one of them). Can anyone explain this? Will the new Password app have 'everything' in it?

I always end up looking in the Keychain app to be sure to find what I'm looking for, but I dislike that app because it often takes several password entries to get to see a password.

mh-15 hours ago

There are multiple different types of 'password' entries that can be stored in the Keychain. If you open a terminal and run `security -h`, you can see what I mean. Keychain Access.app is accessing the same database as this CLI tool.

I assume the Passwords section of System Settings is only pulling up a subset of these, but I haven't upgraded macOS on my personal laptop in a long time (I'm on 12.4), so can't verify easily.

offsky19 hours ago

If I lose access to my Apple account (via hacking, being banned or otherwise), do I also lose access to all my saved password? Thats what I want to know.

musictubes18 hours ago

No.

Passwords are saved on your device.

n4r922 hours ago

> Considering this service would be operated and owned by Apple, likely to have a deeper integration across its iOS, iPadOS, and MacOS platforms, and doesn't have the same track record of security breaches as competitors, it should make for a compelling alternative for many users.

Is the reason for fewer security breaches perhaps that the data wasn't as valuable to attackers (until now) ?

throwanem22 hours ago

It looks to be a new surface on iCloud Keychain, which has existed and been deeply integrated into Apple OSes for a long time. It doesn't seem intuitively too likely this would make it a much more appealing target than it is already.

vbezhenar20 hours ago

Good. I already switched to iCloud Passwords for all my needs, but it's not very convenient now. No way to store bank card info, no way to store ssh passwords (I'm using fake domain myserver.ssh.com, but that's weird), no way to store key files. Hopefully it'll get better.

Sprotch21 hours ago

For this to catch on it needs to have a Chrome app - that's the only way employers let you use a password manager

fckgw21 hours ago

There's been a Keychain/iCloud Passwords chrome extension for years already

Bnjoroge21 hours ago

really? what's the name?

lxgr19 hours ago

It's worth noting that this is Windows only, and needs you to install the iCloud native client there (which might not be an option on managed devices).

It doesn't work as a standalone Chrome extension in the way that 1Password or Bitwarden do, for example.

GeekyBear21 hours ago

I'll be interested to see if there is improved support for handling and syncing passkeys to multiple personal devices.

I'm a bit nervous after hearing about people having early adopter issues.

Hopefully there is some sort of fallback if something extreme like a house fire manages to destroy all of your personal devices at once.

boringg21 hours ago

You think people will migrate from LastPass to 1password or do you think this just limits new inbound.

Also if those two apps didn't have a product feature map way ahead of apple then they were doomed from the get go. They must have known something like this was a significant business threat if not existential risk...

alberth21 hours ago

What's new besides management of passwords being move from Settings, now into it's own dedicated app?

BiteCode_dev20 hours ago

A password manager that doesn't have an open-source client cannot be truely checked. Therefore it cannot be trusted to encrypt them before being sent nor to not contain a backdoor.

Apple was part of the PRISM program, we know they gave access to our data for mass spying.

phito22 hours ago

Why single out lastpass in the title?

drx22 hours ago

I didn't want to editorialize the article title, but yeah, it's tacky.

fckgw22 hours ago

Because they are the most popular password manager

_zoltan_21 hours ago

Maybe once they were, but they suck compared to 1password. I've moved and never looking back.

Filligree21 hours ago

Bitwarden here, and certainly a lot of people have moved, but we’re anecdotes. What’s the data say?

fckgw21 hours ago

Do you know what "most popular" means?

FredPret21 hours ago

Good! I've typed ⌘-spacebar + "password" about a million times now

mtillman20 hours ago

I really enjoy 1password, things, mind node, etc but I never seem to enjoy Apple apps other than Messages or I suppose Finder if you're being very specific. Maybe this one will be different.

tarentel21 hours ago

If this supports OTP, and ideally profiles, I'd likely cancel my 1Password subscription. I've been waiting for Apple to release something like this for a long time and surprised it took them this long.

alt22721 hours ago

Keychain has been built into all apple devices for ages, and all support OTP and seamless sharing across all your devices. Genuinely interested to know why you have been using 1Password when apple will already do it all for you? Did you not know?

Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG021 hours ago

iOS already supports OTP, it’s just buried in Settings > Passwords > Set up verification code. Once you do that, it’s seamless - it autofills in all my site and works beautifully in chrome/edge/firefox even in my PCs

ChrisArchitect20 hours ago

Some earlier discussion ahead of the announcement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40613857

adam_arthur18 hours ago

People should just use a sufficiently complex, memorized, password for their money/identity, and then a (mental) algorithm that allows deriving unique passwords for other services that are less important.

Only have to memorize 2-3 strings and more secure than a password manager since there's no third party in the loop.

Password Managers are a huge man-in-the-middle and liability in other regards (e.g. you don't have it present on a given device or on hand).

SSO from a single set of credentials is a much better solution. Multi-factor biometrics even better (outside of PII sensitivities)

toddmorey21 hours ago

This is welcome. Central password management really should be an OS feature. Drives me crazy that every browser I use has a different credentials store and sync service.

sahila21 hours ago

Why do you have the need to use different browsers? Use the one you like on all your devices is easy.

lxgr19 hours ago

Not everybody appreciates platform lock-in (whether the platform is a browser or an OS).

thway1526903718 hours ago

Are they going to remove competitor password manager apps as they did with other things they have incorporated into the iOS?

Canada19 hours ago

I won't even look at it until I see many years of track record of excellent support on non-Apple systems.

boringg21 hours ago

Password manager apps have been put on notice.

teolandon21 hours ago

Not while people can't use the Apple one on Linux or Android.

criddell20 hours ago

I think for a lot of the password managers out there, the majority of their revenue comes from Apple users. The ones that don't rely on Apple users will be fine.

cheeze21 hours ago

I mean, my parents will immediately move to this from BitWarden.

There is still a place for password managers, but if I'm the LastPass CEO, writing is on the wall with this announcement... They will see a large exodus of customers that use Apple OS.

recursive20 hours ago

Put on notice? What's better about this than 1password?

Syzygies7 hours ago

For years, Keychain Access would copy disk image passwords from custom keychains into keychains that opened at login, defeating my attempts at extra security.

I don't trust 'Passwords'.

sleepybrett20 hours ago

I hope there is a cli that will allow access to this like the `security` command, maybe this is just another facade on top of oldschool keychain?

Angostura19 hours ago

So they are reinventing the KeyChain Access app on MacOS?

nerdjon21 hours ago

Yeah there is a pretty good chance that once this rolls out I won't be using 1Password anymore.

I only use 1Password instead of native because I needed something that worked on Windows. Will need to see how well that works, but I just don't see a personal reason why I would not just use this when it works so much better on my iOS devices.

rdm_blackhole20 hours ago

I for one will stay away. What if your Apple account get banned? Then you lose all your passwords?

It's the same reason I don't trust Google with all my picture or documents. At any point in time their algos can flag your account for wrong reasons and that's the end of your digital life.

Beijinger21 hours ago

enpass.io is great.

+ Can't beat convenience.

+ Cross platform

+/- free if you don't need mobile version

- Closed source

(no affiliation)

heinrich599120 hours ago

Bitwarden

+ cross-platform

+ free as in beer

+ free and open-source software

Can't really comment on convenience, I moved from LastPass, but it has worked well for me.

Beijinger19 hours ago

I think I checked this. The self hosted wallet was tricky if I remember right.

lxgr19 hours ago

There's a Docker image that has worked out of the box for me.

Beijinger12 hours ago

My hoster does not support docker, this is the problem.

shironandon20 hours ago

this sounds great as long as law and federal enforcement agencies can also access that password manager app as-needed.

favorited20 hours ago
sam_goody19 hours ago

Maybe I don't want "whoever" to be able to get into every one of my accounts by coercing Apple to give access to all my passwords.

There are groups that can do that coercion (eg. US and CPC governments), and there may be support staff et all in Apple that can get the same access.

For the same reason, I was unhappy that Keychain.app is auto synced to iCloud (and as per a past thread, even if you disabled it it may be reset).

So, of course, I don't have to use their app. Except that I suspect it will be built into the OS in a way that makes it hard to avoid, such as Keychain.

I would love it if there was a way I could setup my self-hosted BitWarden instance to be as integrated as Keychain is, and not use Apple or Google for passwords.

commandersaki7 hours ago

iCloud Keychain and Passwords are end to end encrypted; how will coercion help?

jaskaransainiz21 hours ago

Nice

astrodust22 hours ago

It's good to see that 1Password is staying several steps ahead here to avoid being "Sherlocked" by Apple.

The new SSH key manager feature is an example of something Apple's unlikely to address for years, if ever. https://developer.1password.com/docs/ssh/manage-keys/

LeoPanthera22 hours ago

I really tried to like their new non-native app, and if it works well I could probably live with it, but it was so buggy and glitchy, even to the point where browser auto-fill often just... wouldn't. That's a basic feature.

I switched to iCloud Passwords a few months ago and I'm very happy with the product. Looks like this Passwords app is a nice new GUI over the top of that same database.

kstrauser21 hours ago

Same here. I switched from 1P to Passwords a while back, then switched back when I got a free 1P account from my job. I'd already started thinking about returning to Passwords, though. Much as I wish I could love 1Password, the current app is a mess. I have a Mac Studio without Touch ID and the "unlock with Apple Watch" feature almost never works. They also refuse to allow unlocking with YubiKeys (see https://www.reddit.com/r/1Password/comments/ttt2m0/yubikey_i...) for reasons I consider specious.

1P has some wonderful work-oriented features we use constantly. I don't like the direction it's going for personal stuff.

noprocrasted21 hours ago

I stick to 1Password 7 for that reason - thankfully it still works for the time being.

kredd22 hours ago

If 1P was aiming to get attention of an average consumer, Apple might start eating their lunch. SSH key manager is great, but the amount of people who needs it is very small compared to general market.

astrodust21 hours ago

They're certainly focusing on a more sophisticated market, especially in the corporate space.

avree21 hours ago

Is this not exactly what the Apple Keychain does? Manage keys?

smileybarry21 hours ago

Might sound like a technicality, but: iCloud Keychain can store the passphrase but can't store the key itself. You still need an encrypted private key on-disk to use this: https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/250572 .

1Password saves the key itself in the encrypted vault and implements an SSH agent that can then interact with OpenSSH etc. and provide key operations, like how a physical dongle would function.

avree17 hours ago

Ah, that is a very important distinction. Thanks for clarifying! For my purposes, the passphrase storage works fine, but I can see how the vault could be a useful feature.

throw2937373321 hours ago

1password is too expensive when compared to Bitwarden or Keeper.

It's almost double the price per user so my company switched to Bitwarden.

We're a Mac shop and if Apple can make it even more affordable then we would definitely consider switching again.

MaxBarraclough22 hours ago

Surprised to see Forget LastPass, as if it's the current incumbent. It very much isn't, at least in my perception. LastPass disgraced itself into irrelevance back in 2022.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LastPass#2022_customer_data_an...

willis93621 hours ago

You wouldn't want to give free publicity to a serious competitor like btiwarden, 1password, or keepass.

avree21 hours ago

1Password is still around? I used to love it, then they changed the app, pricing schema, UX, and generally made things worse overall.

tiltowait21 hours ago

1Password is both still around and still the benchmark, much as that pains me to say given how much of a UX regression 1P8 was.

MobileVet21 hours ago

Wow. Each to their own I suppose. We have a corporate account and I think 1Password is pretty fantastic. Additionally, all of our employees are given family accounts, that include 5 individuals, for free. I highly recommend 1Password to everyone I know.

watermelon021 hours ago

For anyone interested in this, Bitwarden also gives away free Families plan (for up to 6 users) to all members of Enterprise plan.

doublepg2321 hours ago

I use 1Password daily but missed anything before this version switch-up I guess. I've got nothing but positive things to say.

fanf217 hours ago

2019: LastPass leaks credentials from previous site. https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=19...

2017: Design flaws in LastPass two factor authentication. http://www.martinvigo.com/design-flaws-lastpass-2fa-implemen...

2016: More LastPass security vulnerabilities. https://palant.de/2016/09/16/more-last-pass-security-vulnera...

2015: Even the LastPass will be stolen. http://www.martinvigo.com/even-the-lastpass-will-be-stolen-d...

BXlnt2EachOther21 hours ago

Off-topic comment to urge any LastPass users before Sept 16 2022 to please look into parent post's link. LastPass said accounts deleted before June 21 2022 were not affected if that's still up to date.

If I understand:

Attackers got access to LastPass's account data backups directly and in bulk. 2FA doesn't help here.

While LastPass since increased their password rounds for new accounts to 100k+, many users especially long-time users had them set well below and never updated. Reports of 5000 rounds, 500 rounds, ... even 1 round.

URLs were not encrypted. If you had sensitive URLs, I think you have to treat them as compromised. If you had crypto exchange logins or high-value URLs, I'd imagine you might attract extra attention.

[edit for typos].

santoshalper21 hours ago

Maybe that's what they were going for?

jiveturkey21 hours ago

It's zdnet and the headline is designed as clickbait. LastPass is likely the most recognizable brand (LastPass claims #1 on their homepage) and among the knowledgable, it absolutely has among the highest recognition not to mention clickbait-worthiness.

The article text mentions 1Password as the first listed PWM product.

pudwallabee12 hours ago

[dead]

msie21 hours ago

[flagged]

AnonC21 hours ago

Where did you get that impression from? The WWDC keynote mentioned recording calls on iPhone (with transcription) and said that the other end would be notified when you start recording.

msie20 hours ago

Oh really? Unfortunately i didn’t see the keynote this time and i didn’t see this in any online summaries. Didn’t expect they’d do it this time! Ive been asking for it in prev years. But does it record audio? This is good if you get to keep audio!

cloin21 hours ago

They just announced this:

Record and transcribe a live call directly from the Phone app.21 You can also search call history more easily, dial smarter, and switch SIM cards seamlessly.

joking21 hours ago

they actually showed the option to do that with a full AI (apple intelligence of course) summary made on device.

alt22721 hours ago

So are they literally just launching an icon which opens keychain?

drcongo20 hours ago

No.